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Old hemi in early A body

24K views 23 replies 13 participants last post by  340fyd 
#1 ·
New to this board, looks great! I have a 66 Dart and a '57 392 Hemi. Right now they're about 20 feet apart. The trick is to put one inside the other. The car is whole and in great shape, the motor is literally a bucket of bolts. Well, buckets and boxes and piles on the bench.

I've been away from hotrodding for  awhile so I'm a bit lacking in up to date info. If I ask a dumb question that would be why.

Been looking at the engine bay and scratching my head how best to do this. I'd like to use the shorty headers I have if possible so it looks like I have to decide whether to set the motor back like ummm 4 inches maybe, or install a rack and pinion to give me clearance on the left side. From what I've read so far, the rack option might be problematic in getting it positioned correctly, but Like I said, I'm lacking in good info.

Frankly I don't have the money for a tubular Kframe, besides I'd like to work this out, homebrew. To me that's half the point of doing something like this. Meet the challenge.

Horsepower will probably be around 500, unless I get really inspired and suddenly wealthy. I know you can build smallblocks  to this level for alot less $ but they don't have plug wires sticking out the valve covers. I'm sure you know what i mean.

So, anyway, thought I'd break the ice.
 
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#2 ·
There are some rack conversions, but you might just be better off with a steering shaft with some universal joints to clear the motor and run manual steering. You also might be able to rotate the steering gear mount a little (leaving the pitman shaft at the same relative position) to make it easier to line up the shaft.



 
#4 ·
Jim_Lusk said:
There are some rack conversions, but you might just be better off with a steering shaft with some universal joints to clear the motor and run manual steering. You also might be able to rotate the steering gear mount a little (leaving the pitman shaft at the same relative position) to make it easier to line up the shaft.
Hmmm, interesting.  What do you mean exactly? If I could move the interfering part of the box down and left or forward would be a big help, I think, maybe requiring less engine setback. What I'm concerned about with alot of setback is that the fatter maincase of the 727(compared to the slim tailshaft) would also move back under the torsion bar crossmember causing more interference. Trading bad fit here for bad fit there.

I'm at work right now but tomorrow I'll poke my head in there and take a look.

How much deviance from exact stock location of the pitman arm do you think is tolerable?
I already have manual steering.

thanks!
 
#5 ·
Thanks GTS Cowboy. No doubt I'll have to make some compromises here and there and probably make some mistakes and maybe hit some deadends.

For example, I have stock iron ex manifolds too, which would eliminate some of the clearance problems. But I'd really have to hit a deadend for me to give up the extra power. But if its the only way then, ya do what ya gotta do.

35 years ago I put a 354 Hemi into a 64 Polara. Pretty easy compared to this. That had the iron manifolds and yet still was more than quick.
 
#6 ·
You've probably got a half inch or so to play with. I was just thinking of rotating the mount around the pitman shaft so that the shaft would stay in the same place. You'd have to adjust the tie rods for center and it would not be ideal, but it might work. It might even be possible to move the stearing gear bracket out and the idler arm bracket out the same distance on the other side and shortening the tie rods. Again, none of this is ideal, but a few tweaks here and there might gain you the clearance.



 
G
#7 ·
727s swap into early As pretty easily.

Mounting the 392 will be pretty easy, then it will get pretty different pretty fast.

I'd consider some Hot Hemi Heads heads later on. Pricey, but those are seriously heavy pieces stock and it will help bring things back closer to stock.

I bet custom headers would be worth it in this application. If it gets too rough, look around and see who'll do 'em.
 
#10 · (Edited)
the number one thing is to put the heads on the block with the valve covers and take a good measurement of the width. now see if it's going to fit between the fender wells. number two is don't use the 727 with the drum on it. buy the adaptor for the newer 727. setting the motor back will open up a can of worms you won't want to deal with. the seam between the firewall and trans tunnel will have to be hammered flat. now you can try a test fit to see what else will need to be modified. try to use the shorty headers if at all possible. the motor might fit in the "K" frame ok because that body did come with a 273 in it and the bottom end of a 392 is not so much different. installing a rack and pinion is a bit of a challenge. grab yourself a wilwood disc brake kit with the large mopar bolt pattern and swap the spindles side to side. install the rack straight inline between the spindle tie-rod ends as high up in the "K" frame as possible. getting the bumpsteer out with take alot of your time but needs to be done for the hotrod to act correctly.



 
#12 ·
I put a 354 in mine last year. You'll have to lose the stock steering and go with borgesons. the engine will set with about a 1/2 inch each side. I used a Rampage rack and made a bracket out of square stock and mounted it frame to frame, kinda like a straight axle. This must be lined up wth your tie rods. Steering column must be cut to fit. Block huggers are a good thing also mini strarter. Bolt your fabed cross member on don't weld as you might want to remove it to get to something. On the stearing cross member I refabed it so that it didn't go staight across but angled up to give the exhaust more room (you'll see what I mean). You'll probably ,if you haven't already, need to go to bigger torsion bars, 383 ,090 something like that. take your time and measure ,measure, measure. You'll have that 392 in and out a hundred times. the biggest fear after getting it in was bump steer. I took mine out on the County roads to see how it drove ,perposly hit pot holes and bumps . Did fine but it will steer like an old tracter ,in a corner it will not correct on its own. I got the engine to set as natual as I could. It sets about a 1/2 inch high which is ok as I'm using a hood scoop. see if you can find a mock up block , this would help alot. Good luck.
 
#14 ·
Hey thanks for the extra input, glad I checked back. Looks like I will be able to start the install in the spring. Its taken longer than I expected, what with machining delays, fluctuating funds etc, mostly the funds, yeah. At one point I got frustrated so i put some of the motor together just for visual inspiration to keep going so here's a few pics. Have since changed orange to black paint on the motor. Color scheme will be raw aluminum, black paint and red anodized fittings. Going with a remote elec water pump, partially to reduce total length, partly so the Moon front cover shows. Should look good with braided stainless hoses, no? Yeah I admit its as much about the old school look as about torque.

Motor internals are custom Ross forged pistons at about 10.25:1, stock rods with ARP, main girdle with studs, very old but excellent shape Erson hyd cam at 450 lift and 230 duration at .050. SBM windage tray, replacement stock oil pump(with high pressure spring) CAT timing gears with an oiler I made up to squirt on both the bearing and the teeth, maybe overkill but couldn't hurt?

I had a nice set of ported big valve heads that came with the basket case motor. I discovered the hard way that the valves are longer than stock( I think they are BBC valves) and so require Titan or similar rocker assemblies which at $2500+ is not in the budget so luckily I had previously picked up on a whim a pair of stock heads which my machinist fitted with stock size stainless valves. I hated to ditch the big valves but had little choice. So power expectations are lowered. Still should soil the occasional boxers.

I checked into having custom valves made to replace the longer stemmed ones in the ported heads, not cheap but maybe one day I'll do that and swap the heads, or maybe I'll sell them to finance a transmission.

Thanks again
 

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#21 ·
EARLY A BODY K MEMBER QUESTION,,,,HELP!

Found a 65 dodge dart gt charger on a wrecker heading to scrap yard, needless to say i paid the wrecker driver to bring to my garage instead. The old 273 was gone but every thing else is there. My question is can i put a 72 440 in this car with the same k member? When i install the 727 will i need different crossmember? PLEASE HELP!!!!!!! pics soon
 
#22 ·
Here is my '65 HEMI Valiant with a '56 354 HEMI...the front end is stock '74 Dart disc brake set-up with big block torsion bars, it took alot of late nights and beer to fit the early Hemi. We used the stock slant six k-member with custom motor mounts and some universal joints on the steering. It is a fun car I love it, huge thanks to my Dad! Thanks Brian
 

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