440 source - the journey begins

[speedymopars]

I thought I would give everyone updates on 440source, good or bad depending on how it turns out. I bought a 4.375/4.375 kit from them, AKA 440->528 (55 over) kit. Really it is 526 ci, but they measure everything at a 4.380 bore, so effectively it is rounded up.

I bought thier OEM'ed pistons, crank, rods, C&A gapless rings, and the upgraded bearings. I also got a new dipstick, al water pump and housing. This will be going into a KB AL block that I have on order and will be motor plated.  I bought from them because Brandon definately gave me the impression he knows his stuff, no attitude, and is genuinely interested in selling a great product. I took the drive up there (major accident, turned into a 3hr one way trip for me instead of 1.5 hrs) after I got the call from Keith Black that I was now at the top of the list, and did I want the block. Saying yes meant I needed to get pistons down there for them to measure ASAP. 

I had done a ton of sims beforehand, and decided to get the 512 kit, as my heads and what I was trying to do would support it better. I should have called though, 'cause they were out of stock until Dec 15th on the 512 and 500 kits. So, disregarding the hours of sims I did, I bought the 528 kit. If I had had more funds, I probably would have had custom 4.5 or 4.6 pistons made, but at that point you have to buy the pistons, the wrist pins, the locks, etc all separate, so the costs really add up. Going with a standard kit really saves some bucks.

As a side note, there was a guy up there with a new Mopar block - judging by the quality of machining that was going on with that thing, I'm really glad I am NOT going Mopar. It just looks like there is going to be too much cleanup to get it to my standards.

I have friends and many contacts throughout the industry, and one of my machine shop friends and I were wondering who's product he OEM's. We took a guess, and it turns out we were correct (at least 99.9% certain). I'm not going to say who's product it is, as that is part of his IP and I totally respect that, only that the crank and rods come from a smaller guy who is known to make some quality product, and the platnium pistons are absolutely a top notch supplier. I wanted to get Ross or JP originally - these are better IMHO.

My stuff is in getting balanced at the moment, so we will see where the bob weights and balancing end up. 2 of my 7.1 inch rods are 1 gram heavier than the other 6, so it shouldn't be any problem to balance that out. The moment of truth will be in a few days when we find out if it does indeed balance out without any mallory. We are checking out everything - Wrist pins, rods, bushings, etc., for diameters, straightness, clearance, weight, etc on the entire assembly.

The Water pump looks good, and the housing looks perfect. Will they work and not leak? I'll have to wait to answer that. 

I have no affiliation with 440source other than being a one time customer from them and talking to Brandon at the fall fling. If it is good, I'm gonna say it, and if it sucks - well I'll say that too.

[Lars]

Good stuff, I'm interested to see how this turns out.

[scaldeddog]

 

[Dan-o]

if you don't mind teh asking, anyway we could get a as-you-go pricing?  It'd be great to see penny for penny the costs, the way car craft does...

[ksdartguy]

I bought there 6.760/.990 Hbeams and have no real complaints. A couple pins were a touch snug.
A quick dash with a brake hone fixed that.
Also their heavy walled rocker shafts are working fine. And 2 of their $$69 mini starters are cranking fine. santa4
Rick!

[allblknblue]

if you don't mind teh asking, anyway we could get a as-you-go pricing?  It'd be great to see penny for penny the costs, the way car craft does...

I have one of their aluminum water pumps (stock iron housing) and it doesn't leak, just to let ya know.

[Mopar-N]

if you don't mind teh asking, anyway we could get a as-you-go pricing?  It'd be great to see penny for penny the costs, the way car craft does...

I have one of their aluminum water pumps (stock iron housing) and it doesn't leak, just to let ya know.

how along ago did you buy your pump from them, last time i checked with them they were all sold out.

[Speedy]

Cool! Thanks! I've been planning on ordering a kit(512 CI) in the spring, so I'll be watching this thread 

[allblknblue]

I have one of their aluminum water pumps (stock iron housing) and it doesn't leak, just to let ya know.

how along ago did you buy your pump from them, last time i checked with them they were all sold out.

I bought it on 10/12.

[BLOWNZOOM440]

good luck with the build!!
i just baught a crank and billit mains from him and will be here next week. santa3

[speedymopars]

if you don't mind teh asking, anyway we could get a as-you-go pricing?  It'd be great to see penny for penny the costs, the way car craft does...

I have one of their aluminum water pumps (stock iron housing) and it doesn't leak, just to let ya know.

how along ago did you buy your pump from them, last time i checked with them they were all sold out.

I bought it on 11/21, he just got a shipment in about an hour before I got there.

[BullT]

I thought I would give everyone updates on 440source, good or bad depending on how it turns out. I bought a 4.375/4.375 kit from them, AKA 440->528 (55 over) kit. Really it is 526 ci, but they measure everything at a 4.380 bore, so effectively it is rounded up.

I bought thier OEM'ed pistons, crank, rods, C&A gapless rings, and the upgraded bearings. I also got a new dipstick, al water pump and housing. This will be going into a KB AL block that I have on order and will be motor plated.  I bought from them because Brandon definately gave me the impression he knows his stuff, no attitude, and is genuinely interested in selling a great product. I took the drive up there (major accident, turned into a 3hr one way trip for me instead of 1.5 hrs) after I got the call from Keith Black that I was now at the top of the list, and did I want the block. Saying yes meant I needed to get pistons down there for them to measure ASAP. 

I had done a ton of sims beforehand, and decided to get the 512 kit, as my heads and what I was trying to do would support it better. I should have called though, 'cause they were out of stock until Dec 15th on the 512 and 500 kits. So, disregarding the hours of sims I did, I bought the 528 kit. If I had had more funds, I probably would have had custom 4.5 or 4.6 pistons made, but at that point you have to buy the pistons, the wrist pins, the locks, etc all separate, so the costs really add up. Going with a standard kit really saves some bucks.

As a side note, there was a guy up there with a new Mopar block - judging by the quality of machining that was going on with that thing, I'm really glad I am NOT going Mopar. It just looks like there is going to be too much cleanup to get it to my standards.

I have friends and many contacts throughout the industry, and one of my machine shop friends and I were wondering who's product he OEM's. We took a guess, and it turns out we were correct (at least 99.9% certain). I'm not going to say who's product it is, as that is part of his IP and I totally respect that, only that the crank and rods come from a smaller guy who is known to make some quality product, and the platnium pistons are absolutely a top notch supplier. I wanted to get Ross or JP originally - these are better IMHO.

My stuff is in getting balanced at the moment, so we will see where the bob weights and balancing end up. 2 of my 7.1 inch rods are 1 gram heavier than the other 6, so it shouldn't be any problem to balance that out. The moment of truth will be in a few days when we find out if it does indeed balance out without any mallory. We are checking out everything - Wrist pins, rods, bushings, etc., for diameters, straightness, clearance, weight, etc on the entire assembly.

The Water pump looks good, and the housing looks perfect. Will they work and not leak? I'll have to wait to answer that. 

I have no affiliation with 440source other than being a one time customer from them and talking to Brandon at the fall fling. If it is good, I'm gonna say it, and if it sucks - well I'll say that too.

i certainly look forward to seeing your results on this build...where is the 440 source shop anyway?

[speedymopars]

Lancaster, CA. About 3-4 miles up the road from LA County Raceway.

[redeye dave]

got rods from them for my dad's 451 stroker motor no issues so far.

[fastback383]

I would love to follow this journey for sure. I think there are lots of us dreaming of building a stroker. I know I am. And 440 source sells the kits for $1199 I believe. What a deal if they are a decent quality. I have not heard or seen anything bad about them. Please keep us posted, I am very interested in this. That would be awsome 500 cubes dressed up like a 383 , NICE!  SSHHHH , don't tell qkcuda I am planning this 

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[qkcuda]

Damn Dave, I was only planning a 451.  Now I'm going to have to step it up.

[speedymopars]

Just finished balancing and checking everything but the crank dimensions (which will be done next week).

The crank internally balanced with just a couple of holes, no mallory needed.
The small end was clearanced perfectly for the wrist pin on all 8.
Wrist pins were clearanced perfectly for the pistons on all 8.
The 8 pistons were perfectly 4.370 for the 4.375 bore (though I may bump the bore up to 4.376/4.377 for a little safety with a 300 shot). Waiting for the piston mfg to tell us what clearance is recomended for a 300 shot.

Bobweight came in at a lightweight 2250g - this motor should have no problem reving.

Rod big end 560g, small 249.

Piston came in at 713g - Normal Mopar engines have over 1000g pistons, and the old speedpro's I ran in my 440 were 1210g! (High comp domed)
x8 pistons - 440source (5704g) vs Speedpro (9680g) vs Stock (>8000g) .

Quite a bit of weight savings there.

The guy who did the balancing said he was bored, this was too easy for a standard motor, let alone a stroker.  Of course he just did my friends 348 Ford - it required 5 slugs of mallory in the crank and a ton of grinding on the rods and pistons.

Balancing cost $155.


This project at this time is a  out of 5

[fastback383]

Nice. 440 Source is sounding better all the time. Don't worry qkcuda , I could not put together a 5 hp Briggs and Stratton at the moment . No $.

[speedymopars]

Nice. 440 Source is sounding better all the time. Don't worry qkcuda , I could not put together a 5 hp Briggs and Stratton at the moment . No $.

\

It's not stopping me :-)

[pwmax]

1 lb is 454 grams. SO, those pistons weigh more than 1 lb less, each, compared to the Speed-Pro's. THats sick isn;t it? . People talk about 30-40 grams and are happy to loose that per part, but over 1 lb, thats crazy. I don't get Federal mogul. Anyhow, sounds good. Who is making the pistons for them? Ross? Probe? mahle? Does he say? Anyhow, glad everything checked out. Thats always good.

Frank
Advanced Performance
www.get-ap.com

[dusterdood]

That;s great. I love these kind of threads!

[hwp]

 o----o<>I bought the 512 kit about one year ago. I have not had it on the track yet, The motor is a real beast. I had my machinest check every thing. Ballanced with only a little removed from crank. I am useing zero deck===flattop ross with ported 915 heads with a 73 Block. On the dyno with my cam choice it made 600hp at the crank with very little tuneing (Big Cam- Bigger Carb).  It is going in front of a 4 speed, so I need to get it all right befor the track. The one thing I can say is that I love the parts and so did my machinist who is also a mopar guy. This is for anyone spending money of any sort. MAKE SURE your oiling system is up to the task. I hope to switch to Indy E-Z heads by the time I drop it into the duster, so that will make a big diff.

[speedymopars]

The 4.375 crank

So we measured the crank on all surfaces - and it is perfect. No machining needed. Balanced perfectly with a few drill holes.
My Milodon Gear drive arrived, and did the milodon stoker windage tray. The KB block should be ready late next week. Same with the cam. 
My heads are ready to go, cleaned up, blueprinted, flowed, cc'ed. My tunnel ram is polished, the twin 830's ready to go.
The fogger and oil pan are the only two things I really need, and then I need to find a way to line up the pullies as the gear drive has pushed the AL water pump and housing out about 3/8ths. I also need to go through my KB oil pump and make sure it gets serviced.

Once I get the block, I get to start file fitting the gapless C&A rings and clearancing the gear drive, as well as putting the rest together. I have pics, but no way to post them at the moment, so at the end of this thread I'll figure it out and post the the build up pics.


The rods are hung from the pistons with care, in the hopes that my block will soon be there.
From my garage, there stood such a whine, in the hopes my cam timing, would soon be fine. 
The solid roller moves the valves with such a clatter, but it's not silence I want, but horsepower I'm after
On KB, On Miliodon, On 440source
'cause you know, I'm building a stroker of course....

[Evan]

The rods are hung from the pistons with care, in the hopes that my block will soon be there.
From my garage, there stood such a whine, in the hopes my cam timing, would soon be fine. 
The solid roller moves the valves with such a clatter, but it's not silence I want, but horsepower I'm after
On KB, On Miliodon, On 440source
'cause you know, I'm building a stroker of course....

 

now thats a christmas poem!

[speedymopars]

Thanks! (wrote it myself...)

[dart]

My 471 is all 440-source stuff

                                 Grams
                                 Removed        Finished
Piston                                               556.4
pin                                                   153.2
Rod reciprocating            2.7               240.6
Rod rotating                   3.6               529.8
Reciprocating %                                     50

                     Crankshaft Damper End
Original unbalance                              161.0
Residual unbalanced                                 .2
                     Crankshaft Drive End
Original Unbalanced                            196.0
Residual Unbalanced                                .1

I work at a machine shop and I looked everything over JUST looking for any excuse to call this stuff Cheap I couldn't!!!!! its
TOP SHELF STUFF AND I WOULD RECOMMEND IT TO ANYONE

[318_Magnum]

Man, I love threads like these. I hear nothing but good things about 440Source. I hope to do business with them in the future.

It's also awesome to have the opportunity to be a part of a community like this to pass on the good [or bad] news about the various companies that cater to our hobby.

[speedymopars]

I'm getting close :-)

After several bad bends, I have the NOS plumbed where I'm happy with it ..... still not perfect, but acceptible.

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