440 source - the journey begins

[fasttcars]

whoa whoa whoa.......the rocker itself needs oil for it to ride on the shaft but all's the pushrod tip needs is a slighly drip...since their's really not that much side to side movement going on their anyways...that pushrod turned blue because of stress....and are you positive it wasn't like that when you put it in,,,cause they can turn blue when they are pressed on the shaft...if not it happened when the rocker tip was hammering the pushrod with all that excesive clearence

[speedymopars]

whoa whoa whoa.......the rocker itself needs oil for it to ride on the shaft but all's the pushrod tip needs is a slighly drip...since their's really not that much side to side movement going on their anyways...that pushrod turned blue because of stress....and are you positive it wasn't like that when you put it in,,,cause they can turn blue when they are pressed on the shaft...if not it happened when the rocker tip was hammering the pushrod with all that excesive clearence

That was my original thought - that the excessive clearance heated up the pushrod. I happened to take a pic a week ago - and in looking at it now, the pushrod is perfect.

Now, Stainless turns blue with heat - just look at all of the stainless headers out there, but it doesn't seem to affect the metals. A pushrod is under stress though, so that may change things.  In looking at the pushrod, it looks fine other than the discoloration, and the rocker adjuster looks fine except for the black coating worn off, so what do you think? Still can be run? It is NOT bent in any way.  I'm leaning towards yes, but check on it regularly. These pushrods are overkill for my app - I only have 600 lbs open but have 3/8ths .120 thick wall stainless - that's almost a solid piece of SS... 

[fasttcars]

that is a thick pushrod...i would just monitor it since i haven't personaly seen that happen...maybe pwmax or somebody else has.....also if a pushrod is gona bend it's not gona be right off the end..more in the center at it's weaker point.....are you absolutly positive it wasn't like that when you put her in?...........if you got a spare throw her in...or get a couple in case[should always have a couple spare or everything anyways]...or ya just monitor it   maybe polish the blue off and see if the coulour reappears.....

[FastmOp]

The pushrod would not bother me as much as the adjuster wearing  the black off. I would prolly replace the adjuster, (or at least watch it like a hawk). The pushrod cup should be through hard but I'm not positive about the adjuster so thats what makes me say that. 

[speedymopars]

Here is a pic I took on May 25th...

[speedymopars]

Well I'm gonna take HemiGTS' advice and replace the pushrod soon, and I found the extra HS adjusters I bought for an event just like this, so I'm gonna swap that out too. Fastcars that PR is probably OK, but I'm gonna order a few spare PR while I'm ordering. 

I think that it is probably OK, but if I do have issues in the future, how am I gonna know right up to the point it breaks?

Might as well run it until the pushrods come in, then swap it out and keep it for an emergency spare.

Just ordered 2 - I figure at $13 Each, cheap insurance.

[speedymopars]

Went to change out the pushrod and do an inspection while I was there - and 3 more were smoked. So I pulled the adjuster - and let's just say we will call it stubby. The 4 front adjusters on the drivers side, Cyl 1 and 3, both int and exhaust, were missing the ball part of the adjuster,worn down and missing half the ball, and the pushrods were black or blue. Under closer inspection, the pushrods must be just a hair too long and missing the oil squirt. I am having them shortened a hair to make sure they get proper oiling and try again.....

[Hemi GTS]

You deffinatly have a lube problem there.If it was me, I would get the new tubes in there and pressure prime the engine and make sure I had some oil getting to those balls and sockets. I would make sure of this before I started it again. Also get the oil and filter out of it. That crap that wore off is in there.

[bOb shingler]

from the looks of the pic with the burnt pushrod in it your right about them being too long. general your suppose to have 2-3 threads showing. looks like your pushrods are about 1/8"+ or - too long. i have found the the oil feed holes to the rocker shaft were not drilled 1/4" all the way to the stand bolt also, they were 1/8", you might check that too.

[speedymopars]

I'm starting off having them shortened by .060 - I think they are about .055 long, judging by the set clearance and then moving it until 1.5 threads are showing. The Crane cam I had in there must have had a much smaller base circle (even though the custom Isky is bigger on the lift) becuase they were a hair too short before....

[speedymopars]

Update :
New pushrods and adjusters from Smith bros should be here Monday, replacing them all with .060 shorter versions.

I installed a new spring from KB for my oil pump; I now have 85 PSI max warm.

I have a spool coming, gonna install that in my extra 742 pig next week.

My fan controller should be here sometime soon, I went ahead and converted everything to water wetter / distilled water.

[383propane]

Don't know if there is any value to this but years ago I pulled the valve covers off a 282 corvette (maybe 327?) and remember the inside of the valve covers had 8 little "drippers" inside to focus the drips from the top of the valve cover onto the rocker / pushrod location or the rocker / valve stem / retainer location.  Can't remember which but I always wondered why somebody doesnt just weld some little tabs or nails / bolt ends or something to focus some oil drips.

[Crazy68Dart]

Speedy, how are your Bulldogs working out for ya?  What kind of spring pressures are you running?  My main concern is valvetrain and spring pressures if I tool my monster around on the street.

Thanks!

[speedymopars]

Speedy, how are your Bulldogs working out for ya?  What kind of spring pressures are you running?  My main concern is valvetrain and spring pressures if I tool my monster around on the street.

Thanks!

The bulldogs seem to be holding up pretty well. I'm running a little over 600 lbs open and 230 closed on the springs. I haven't had any problems so far, and I see 95% street driving. My old setup was the same closed but 580 lbs open, I had a couple of early HS aduster failures, but nothing in the last 15 years (other than this latest prob). Hopefully putting another 30 lbs doesn't break it.

[Crazy68Dart]

Cool.  Yeah Frank set my heads up for 660 open and 225 seat.  I am going to run Indy rockers (1.5).  How did your chambers cc?  Mine are on the big side... 85 cc.

Thanks.

[speedymopars]

Cool.  Yeah Frank set my heads up for 660 open and 225 seat.  I am going to run Indy rockers (1.5).  How did your chambers cc?  Mine are on the big side... 85 cc.

Thanks.

84.8 cc's after they were cleaned up, 83-84 as cast. Sounds like Frank cleaned them up for you.

There was a big variance to the rocker side clearance, so I used 7/8ths arbor shims to set it, and it is working well. Mine are the earlier style that have the large pedesatals so I chucked the outside spacers and went with these shims.  Some needed a lot of shimming (.070 in one case), some only a little, but with these you can get the rocker straight over the valve.

Wish UPS would show up....want to get this thing together.   

[Crazy68Dart]

Well, Hughes originally did the heads (and the chambers), and I was not all that jazzed about the work they did, so I sent them to Frank.  He redid the valve job, and Max Wedge ported them for me.

Also, mine of of the second run.  I have yet to mock the rockers up, we'll see how that goes.

[speedymopars]

OK wish me luck. I grooved my #4 cam journal, I tightened up all rocker side clearances to .015, and now it seems as though I am getting proper oiling to all the pushrod cups. I am about 2 hours away from firing and trying this out again..... I am $1K into pushrods and adjusters now. Hope this works...

[fasttcars]

best of luck.....

[ksdartguy]

Sounds like you are ready, Keep us posted when you get a good test on it.

Rick

[Pro Street dart]

The bottom hose was a little easier. I set the top of the al radiator to sit 23 inches above the stock bottom radiator mount. My old radiator sat 24 inches at the tallest point, but 23 1/8 at the top of the tank. BTW - I eyeballed this, so I was really happy with myself after I measured.

The rad outlet was at 1 inch above the bottom before, now it is closer to 6 inches above. This is actually pretty cool for me, because the rad hose now can go above the oil lines, and not have to snake through them as before (the reason for those big bend 180 deg mosters was because the lower rad hose snaked in between all 4 lines, it was a PITA to get it in there).

I grabbed P/N 52816 and it fit perfectly..

Thanks a miilion for the upper hose p/n. I didn't get a Summit rad, but a Surperior (company name) made one from eBag for a killer price. It came w/ mounting flanges & petcock. A liitle minor trimmimg on the hose and it fit good. The NAPA p/n is 8650.

[speedymopars]

I'm still having issues. I swapped the valvetrain from Right to to left, and suddenly I am having oiling issues on the right (I'm getting smart and running it without VC's on so I check it out before I fry stuff). Two of the valves on the right head do not have any oil flowing over them, so there is an obvious lack of oil. Real easy to spot when 6 of the retainers are drenched in oil, and 2 are dry.

Moved positions of the rockers, and even changed out the rockers to an old set of harland sharps that I had. As a side note, comparing my 10 YO rockers to the new ones - the new bearings are 1/2 the width, and the old ones look beefier. Almost want to run the old ones.

It seems to be partially related to the rocker, but I am really seeing the same issue on a specific valve, telling me it is really the shaft, or possibly a shaft / rocker clearance issue. I am thinking that the bearings on the rocker are worn a bit from running water instead of oil, and the shaft is also in the same boat. This valvetrain was on the head with the oil / water leak. I think that the shaft was maybe worn, the bearings are worn, and now there isn't enough clearance between the two of them to let the oil squirt. Just a theory.

I do notice on the "bad" rockers that there is a wear mark on the inside near the oil hole, meaning there isn't any oil at that spot, but moving the rocker to a different spot allows it to oil .

[FastmOp]

I feel for ya, can you groove the inside of the rocker or the shaft to direct flow to the feed hole of the rocker. Sounds like you have a good set of rockers there that are just used, stick them on there and start over and see if they work out.

[speedymopars]

I changed out all of the rockers to my old set today, fired it up, and saw the same thing. #4 ex and #2 intake retainers stay dry while the rest have oil on them. Given the fact that the problem moved with the shaft and seems to remain with the shaft, I can only conclude it is the shaft. I don't see any real reason for it to not oil, but I can't eyeball .001 vs .003 clearance either.

Quick call to 440 source, and a set of thier thick shafts are on the way. I hope they are good - $79 vs $262 for anyone else, but then again it is only about $10 in steel. Debated geting new rockers, but I'm quicky draining my available funds...

[VTI]

Thanks for the in depth post's !

[408 dart]

speedy how does that 528 run i just started building a 440 source one

[speedymopars]

Other than the fact that I am frying pushrods, the thing revs quick and has a ton of power from 4-7K. I run out of road with the 4.30's, I need to drop my gear down now to a 3.55 or something.

[fasttcars]

the oil hole in the head isn't partially blocked is it?

[Crazy68Dart]

the oil hole in the head isn't partially blocked is it?

I was wondering that too.  It sounds like he swapped the shafts and the problem moved with the shaft to the other side.  Bummer.

[408 dart]

speedy what cam,lifters ,carb etc. are you running?