440 source - the journey begins

[speedymopars]

Yea, I started out frying #1 intake then #3 exhaust, and later on #1 Exhaust / #3 intake. I pulled the engine apart, and grooved my #4 cam bearing.

After many pushrods and rockers later, I started running the engine without valvecovers and noticed two of the retianers were dry.

I swapped the shafts and rockers to the other heads (right to left, left to right). I took everything apart and inspected it, and unfortunately didn't mark the rockers themselves. When I put it back together, #8 intake, and #6 exhaust were dry. I swapped out #8 rockers with some old ones, and the problem went away partially, the retainer wasn't dry, but it wasn't like the others.

So I removed everything yet again, and put the rockers that were at 8 on 6. little improvement, but there again, not conclusive.

Taking it apart again, I flipped the shaft and put on all old rockers.

#2i and #4e retainers are now dry when it runs.

I can only surmise that the shaft is inperceptibly worn and causing the oil squirt hole to not have enough clearance for a good shot. The rockers have a distinct line where the anodizing has worn off right around the oil squirt hole.

[speedymopars]

speedy what cam,lifters ,carb etc. are you running?

Isky custom ground solid roller, crane lifters, Smith bros 3/8 pushrods (I think I'm going 5/16ths next go around due to clearance issues), Harland Sharp Rockers and Shafts, Crower springs.

2 holley 9381's on a heavily modified Weiand tunnel ram with a fogger. 

[NYrr496]

speedymopars, I would measure the groove in the rocker's relationship to the oil hole on the shaft. Are your rockers shimmed side to side to center them on the valves?  What is the origin of those shafts?  Just a wild guess.

[408 dart]

im going to run a 1050 dominator ,car has a super pro shot on it already that i would like to run sometimes not always. i bought the .055 flat tops . will run a roller cam also dont know what one yet? will get block girdle also. have been told that stock mains will be ok? trying to keep cost down, the machinest wants 300.00 to line bore with new mains?

[NYrr496]

im going to run a 1050 dominator ,car has a super pro shot on it already that i would like to run sometimes not always. i bought the .055 flat tops . will run a roller cam also dont know what one yet? will get block girdle also. have been told that stock mains will be ok? trying to keep cost down, the machinest wants 300.00 to line bore with new mains?

That must be the going rate, My machinist said exactly the same number.

[408 dart]

nyrr496 thanks and what would you do?

[speedymopars]

speedymopars, I would measure the groove in the rocker's relationship to the oil hole on the shaft. Are your rockers shimmed side to side to center them on the valves?  What is the origin of those shafts?  Just a wild guess.

Yes, the rockers are shimmed and centered, maybe I should uncenter them??? Shafts are made in USA harland Sharps, about 10 years old.

[NYrr496]

A short time ago, I was going to buy the steel 440source main caps and install them with ARP studs. Then 440source made that cool girdle available, so I was going to go with that. Now I just saw yesterday that World Products is casting Mopar big blocks with cross bolted mains, ribs across the lifter valley and all other sorts of improvements. At this moment, I'm a little undecided. I guess no matter what I do with my factory block, I'll spend the 300 bucks to improve the mains. The only killer is if I ever buck up for the World block, any stuff I invest into this one is useless.

What's everyone seeing the limitations being using a production block with a 4.15 or 4.25 crank in a street application?

[flyboy01]

speedymopars, I would measure the groove in the rocker's relationship to the oil hole on the shaft. Are your rockers shimmed side to side to center them on the valves?  What is the origin of those shafts?  Just a wild guess.

Yes, the rockers are shimmed and centered, maybe I should uncenter them??? Shafts are made in USA harland Sharps, about 10 years old.

That sounds plausible. 

[73swinger]

A short time ago, I was going to buy the steel 440source main caps and install them with ARP studs. Then 440source made that cool girdle available, so I was going to go with that. Now I just saw yesterday that World Products is casting Mopar big blocks with cross bolted mains, ribs across the lifter valley and all other sorts of improvements. At this moment, I'm a little undecided. I guess no matter what I do with my factory block, I'll spend the 300 bucks to improve the mains. The only killer is if I ever buck up for the World block, any stuff I invest into this one is useless.

What's everyone seeing the limitations being using a production block with a 4.15 or 4.25 crank in a street application?

I'm running a 4.25 stroke crank in my 383 block. With the cam, heads etc. that I'm running the engine stops pulling around 5800 or so. I think as long as you don't over rev it, WTF? Oh, I also used the "ultra light" crank form 440 source which probably helps as well

[73swinger]

A short time ago, I was going to buy the steel 440source main caps and install them with ARP studs. Then 440source made that cool girdle available, so I was going to go with that. Now I just saw yesterday that World Products is casting Mopar big blocks with cross bolted mains, ribs across the lifter valley and all other sorts of improvements. At this moment, I'm a little undecided. I guess no matter what I do with my factory block, I'll spend the 300 bucks to improve the mains. The only killer is if I ever buck up for the World block, any stuff I invest into this one is useless.

What's everyone seeing the limitations being using a production block with a 4.15 or 4.25 crank in a street application?

[NYrr496]

speedymopars, I would measure the groove in the rocker's relationship to the oil hole on the shaft. Are your rockers shimmed side to side to center them on the valves?  What is the origin of those shafts?  Just a wild guess.

Yes, the rockers are shimmed and centered, maybe I should uncenter them??? Shafts are made in USA harland Sharps, about 10 years old.

Well, not really "uncenter" them, but check the relationship of the groove in the rocker to the oil hole in the shaft. I like those shafts with the banana groove in them.
 Maybe it's not lined up perfectly and the hole is covered by the flat inner part of the rocker.

[speedymopars]

The only issue is the holes never line up. With the bolt deemed head to be 0 and 180 degrees is the bolt part, the shaft oil holes are sitting at 0 and 180, while the rocker hole is anywhere from 45 to 90 depending on arc of the cam.

I got my 440source shafts today. They look WAYYY beefier than the harlands, and the oil holes are all chamfered to boot . The pics on the 440source website don't do it justice. I was only going to change the one, now they both are getting it.

[Steve DeTar]

I thought the oil holes in the 440Source shafts are not in the right place. They were designed just for their rockers, but I may be wrong.

[speedymopars]

They look identical to the harland sharps. These would not work with a stock type rocker though, as there is a hole on top and bottom. 

[PureGTS]

Your 5/16th push rods will clear stuff but you shouldn't loose diameter for clearance. It may even effect their strength. Better you get the clearance than bend push rods. Besides the cost of the custom PR's are going to be hefty due to the valve train requirements. It may not be possible. Get this, I've been hearing I'll need 7/16 push rods. YIKES!

  Sorry I couldn't make the shin-dig. The MRS didn't get back 'til late and I couldn't ditch the kids.  I really wanted to go I just couldn't escape without setting off alarms. *sigh*

[speedymopars]

The Smith Bros 5/16ths can handle 800 lbs, and the reason I can't get the clearance is becuase the intake port is in the way. On the last go around I compromised between the rocker arm/ valve tip center and the cearance for the pushrod, so I may be OK now.

The party rocked. You missed a good one.

[speedymopars]

Well, after swapping out rockershafts with new ones from 440source, new smith bros pushrods, groving my #4 cam journal .125 wide, .050 deep to get more oil to the heads, and using Valvoline 50 wt - my top end has survived 100 miles!

Now on the the rear gear swap and attacking the cooling issues. The DCC Controls controller didn't work as I wanted so I am double relaying the fan right now. I over heat above 50 MPH making me think too mauch air through the scoop may be causing an issue...

[R5-P7 project]

Hey Speedy, really enjoyed the posts. I'm building a 512 (440Source) 400, so I'm learning a lot from your adventures.
I grew up in Hermosa Beach so, I can relate to the hot rod atmosphere you're enjoying. I live in the south now; we have
it pretty good too. Thanks again for all the great info.  Budd

[speedymopars]

Well the DC control module for the fan didn't work like I wanted it to. I've now offically given up on it; maybe I can use it in the boat if I end up with a water pump (jet boats don't always need a water pump, I'm trying to avoid it altogether). I was hoping it would help, but it didn't seem to be able to drive the fan at high speed. I just double relayed it, and threw it on high speed. Still overheats.

I notice it is around 50 mph where is starts to heat up, and as I said before, I am thinking that the hood scoop is flowing too much air and causing it to override what the fan can put out (which will stall the air through the radiator). I am going to try and tape the scoop closed to see if that fixes it. I am also going to make a chin scoop to put more air into the radiator itself. Was there any kind of factory chin spoiler? I also should seal the carbs to the scoop.

The other thing I am thinking about is an electric wp. It may slow the water down so it has time to cool off. I notice on the freeway once I start heating up, if I slow down, then the engine cools right off.

Other than that, I like the Isky cam that was custom cut. I do wish it had a little more duration ( I think I need about 293-296 @ .050 to get it where I want it), but it is good for now. Someday I'll get some 2 1/4 primaries for the exhaust, I think this engine could really use it.

I bought a new purple/ polished aluminum steering wheel at the hipo meet last week, matches the exterior and looks pretty good.  pics to follow.

[PureGTS]

She may be getting lean at that RPM/speed too making her heat up. Have you dyno'd the set up and had the exh' sniffed to check for carb air/fuel adjustment? Lean makes heat and power but too much... .  It could even be a wierd spot in the timing...  time to visit a dyno me thinks.

I kinda figured if I didn't make it, it would end up being the party of the century. Murphy's law and all ya know?

[NYrr496]

Speedymopars, try a simple air dam directly below your radiator. If you know someone with a third gen camaro, look under one of those. They keep air from recirculating back through the radiator. Works real good.
Yes, seal your scoop to the carbs and yes, slow down your water pump. Are you running thermostats? Maybe try adding a potentiometer and vary the water pump's speed until you find a sweet spot. You can do that from the driver's seat.

[speedymopars]

As soon as I get the boat engine sorted out, I am going to try the electric WP. Maybe with that, my DC Controls controller will work. The issue now is it is a PWM based system, and the fan itself doesn't pull enough power by itself for it to work properly.

At SEMA, there was a company in Whittier than makes aluminum downdraft radiators, they quoted me 200 bucks for a full on original replacement radiator. As this thing ONLY heats up on the FWY at speed, I can only conclude the radiator is too small.

There is another company that quoted me 250 for a 2 pass sideflow radiator (the inlet and outlet are on the same side, the water passes over and back). They are stating that style will cool everything they have thrown at it.

I am going to try and build a fiberglass dam before I buy anything else though, I'll probably pick up some downforce while I am at it, so that won't hurt either.


The oiling system seems to be sorted out now that I have uncentered the rockers from the valves and given more pushrod clearance, grooved the #4 cam bearing, swapped out the shafts to new 440source ones, and threw in Valvoline 50 wt racing oil.

I still need to get my 4.30's out of there and put in something taller - my 3.23's with a spool is what I'm trying next.

I put my new grant purple steering wheel in, the old steering wheel looked like crap. I'll have to post a pic.

Overall, the thing is brutal. I still need to go to the dyno, but with only 512 miles on it, I assume I still have some tuning to do.  I have the advance locked down (it seems to like 24 deg total timing), and the plugs look nice.

I'm currently working on a few other projects - a 2002 4.7HO engine swap in my 2001 Jeep grand cherokee (the wiring is turning out to be a nightmare but it runs pretty damn hard at the moment), and my 1974 Cheyenne boat with a 455 Olds in it. I'm swapping that out for a Mopar 400 block'ed 452 (tunnel ram, twin holleys, NOS,.606 solid roller, big port/big valve heads) and it's getting new gel coat to go with the already done new interior....

[ab7fh]

What happened to all the pics. Lots of good info here, but the pics are gone.

[speedymopars]

Yea, what is going on???

[speedymopars]

So update - my top end oiling issue is gone for the most part, my biggest problem is the cooling on the freeway - I put a trash bag over my scoop on the way to donut derelicts and no overheating. The scoop is flowing too much air for the fan to handle, so I really need to seal the carbs to the scoop. Easier said than done though.

I noticed all of the pics are gone, but I did archive this thread in PDF format a while back, so I have all of the pics. I'll probably hotlink the PDF's so anyone who wants the pics can at least see them. 

[guzzimike]

So update - my top end oiling issue is gone for the most part, my biggest problem is the cooling on the freeway - I put a trash bag over my scoop on the way to donut derelicts and no overheating. 

Hey Speedy, I will  be at Donut Derelicts tomorrow morning...Are you planning on being there..?

If so, It'd be cool to meet you (no pun intended)..

[Ciscodog]

So update - my top end oiling issue is gone for the most part, my biggest problem is the cooling on the freeway - I put a trash bag over my scoop on the way to donut derelicts and no overheating. The scoop is flowing too much air for the fan to handle, so I really need to seal the carbs to the scoop. Easier said than done though.

I noticed all of the pics are gone, but I did archive this thread in PDF format a while back, so I have all of the pics. I'll probably hotlink the PDF's so anyone who wants the pics can at least see them.

I'm surprised you don't have an air pan to begin with.  The scoops don't do much good if it's not sealed.  Glad you're getting it sorted out.

[speedymopars]

Yea, the scoop does being in cold air, but no ram air effect. The positioning of the carbs and the level of the scoop makes it very challenging to seal, look at it once and you wil instantly see what I'm talking about.

I went to the spring fling rather than donut d's, I picked up a balancer for the boat, whih I just got running yesterday afternoon - my magnetic distributor was bad. I have a factory points unit in there now (firing an MSD 6AL). Have to do dd's another weekend.

[NYrr496]

Speedy, my experience with boat engines is to run a big damper like a fluidamper and a 40 pound flywheel for lots of inertia. Actually, I build everything like that.  Seems to work real well in marine apps, though. It's a stroker, right?  Not like you're tryin' to spin a 302 and overcome a lot of weight...