Is This True?

[MyCreation68]

Well I had a plan to just have a local shop I know spray my dart in just a flat black primer so i can upgrade it without having to try and avoid ruining a high dollar paint job(I plan to fix the body rust, then paint it flat black, then I'll be doing upgrades-alterktion, 4 link rear, tubbed rear wheel wells, frame connectors, torque boxes, etc.- then disassembling the whole car and sending the body parts out for paint) but the guys on trucks said today on the show while they are painting there ford flat black said that the flat black paint if using anything other then this 3 stage(primer, paint, flat clear coat?) flat black paint you'll trap water molecules(something like that) in the paint and causes rust quicker. I ask because my car will be in black primer for probably at least 3 years before I get to the stages of painting it So I don't want the body panels that I'll end up paying a pretty penny for to rust in that time frame(I need to do quarter panels, rocker panels, and fenders)

So do they have any proof to their claim? they simply said it will cause paint to rust quicker so I'm concerned. I'd really like to get my car to driving condition(my old lady is saying that if It doesn't drive I don't need it-refering to vehicles at least) The cars a good solid car it's got amazingly immaculate floorboards they do not have a spot of rust on them ether its just the body has some holes. top of the fender, behind the wheel well on the fender, the door is rusting on both sides at the seam at the back, the bottom of both quarter panels are rusting and theres holes in the rockers. Everything else is solid as far as I can tell theres no rust around the windows ether so i want to protect that so i think I'll use por-15 first then get it sprayed in a moderately priced primer(not spray can but no 3 stage paint deal)

[signet]

i am not sure on the product line or specific stuff they were using.

do you know?

and are you going to be driving this car on the road after the primer job or is it going to be in storage for the whole time?

[72swinger]

its not true ,i had my car in primer for 3 years working on it and taking it to the track. its painted now and had no problems... santa3

[MyCreation68]

I plan to drive this car daily while I work on it, that being said it's not my only car so when I tackle big jobs like suspension,etc. I'll have something else to drive so I won't have to do it really hurriedly. I plan on putting a pretty thick couple coats of flat black primer. It's just I'd rather not go and spend the 3500 bucks it'll cost to get it in a decent paint job if I'm gonna be cutting and welding on the car.

I mean eventually when I've got everything done and installed(alterktion, 4 link, etc.) I'll rip it all apart and send it out for paint.

[65prostreet]

Rather than the run of the mill primer have you considered using an epoxy sealer? I've always thought primer would actually absorb moisture hence allowing for surface rust to begin. Hey, what do I know, I drive a truck....I don't do body work.

[automan63]

My...68;    65Pro is right on
          If your going to keep your car in primer for an extended period of time, then I would sand every panel to bare metal real clean, give it a lite (very lite, like just a dusting) coat of SEM self etching primer # 39673 black spray can, (two cans should do your whole car) and then get yourself some PPG DP 90 LF Epoxy primer w/hardner. Do one or two panels at a time. Make sure you do it outside away from everything,, this stuff is like spray glue and sticks to everything. Also make sure you wear a good mask, spend the 35.00 on a 3M charcoal respirator at least. This is bad stuff (the hardner). Regular and less expensive primer surfacers tend to absorb moisture over time, especially when exposed to any kind of other contaminates such as tree sap, bird droppings, acid rain, oils, antifreeze, and all that other crap you can pick up on the road. Primer is not meant to be exposed for very long, its meant to be top coated pretty much right away because it has no UV or IR protection from the sun and the elements. Thats the reason for clearcoats. And DON'T use any polyester primers such as Morton's eliminator or EverCoat's FeatherFill these outright absorb moisture directly. You can't even wetsand those or.....eyes glazing over, that faraway look coming on..... in a very short period of time you'll wind up with little tiny blisters under the paint that only show up when the car sits in the sun and heats up and makes them swell, so.... you get curious and decide to pop one and a little speck of water drains out and there's rust under it........teeth grinding, eye twitches.............. (ask me how I found that out) grind, twitch. Oh, ok, I'm back,....anyway,  DP will tend to be not quite as flat black as I think your after but then again regular flat black primers will "wear" in the weather, epoxy will not. With regular primer when you go to paint your car, lets say two or three years from now, you'll have to strip it to metal, with epoxy you just wash it with soap and water real good, de-grease two times completely resand with say 220 grit D/A, one lite coat of fresh DP and then go to urethane primer surfacer. Hey, I don't drive a truck, but I do bodywork every day.  Jeff. 

[Teeto]

PPG DPLF 90 Hands down.

[Ryan (Strange246)]

My...68;    65Pro is right on
          If your going to keep your car in primer for an extended period of time, then I would sand every panel to bare metal real clean, give it a lite (very lite, like just a dusting) coat of SEM self etching primer # 39673 black spray can, (two cans should do your whole car) and then get yourself some PPG DP 90 LF Epoxy primer w/hardner. Do one or two panels at a time. Make sure you do it outside away from everything,, this stuff is like spray glue and sticks to everything. Also make sure you wear a good mask, spend the 35.00 on a 3M charcoal respirator at least. This is bad stuff (the hardner). Regular and less expensive primer surfacers tend to absorb moisture over time, especially when exposed to any kind of other contaminates such as tree sap, bird droppings, acid rain, oils, antifreeze, and all that other crap you can pick up on the road. Primer is not meant to be exposed for very long, its meant to be top coated pretty much right away because it has no UV or IR protection from the sun and the elements. Thats the reason for clearcoats. And DON'T use any polyester primers such as Morton's eliminator or EverCoat's FeatherFill these outright absorb moisture directly. You can't even wetsand those or.....eyes glazing over, that faraway look coming on..... in a very short period of time you'll wind up with little tiny blisters under the paint that only show up when the car sits in the sun and heats up and makes them swell, so.... you get curious and decide to pop one and a little speck of water drains out and there's rust under it........teeth grinding, eye twitches.............. (ask me how I found that out) grind, twitch. Oh, ok, I'm back,....anyway,  DP will tend to be not quite as flat black as I think your after but then again regular flat black primers will "wear" in the weather, epoxy will not. With regular primer when you go to paint your car, lets say two or three years from now, you'll have to strip it to metal, with epoxy you just wash it with soap and water real good, de-grease two times completely resand with say 220 grit D/A, one lite coat of fresh DP and then go to urethane primer surfacer. Hey, I don't drive a truck, but I do bodywork every day.  Jeff. 

PPG DPLF 90 Hands down.

  If you have a compressor, buy a cheapie spray gun and spray it yourself, you will save a TON of money and DP sprays so easy even I can do it 

Ryan

[A13Dart]

I've got a question. What are these street rod guys using on their cars. You see them with chopped tops and lots of custom bodywork and they usually have a flat paint job. I was told that it was a sealer, sometimes tinted with color Anyway, I was planning on running mine with the "still under construction look" but I want that metal protected from moisture.

[automan63]

If you really want to have that "flat look" you can have it both ways use etch/epoxy primer and then the flat black you want. Seems like too much work to me but hey, who am I?
Just bear in mind that the flat black will fade (chalk out) and wear off over time. When it begins to get chalky it will come off on your hands and clothes and make them black. I wouldnt do it. For my way of thinking just put down the etch/epoxy combo, let it dry overnite and have a real good look at it the next day, and if you just cant stand the slight shine that it has after its dry, then topcoat it with flat black. You have about an 8 hour window between epoxy and topcoat without having to sand it, any longer and you have to sand it to get anything to stick. Just my 2cents  Jeff.

[A13Dart]

The DP sounds like what I want to do. Thanks.

[brickman]

When I did my street rod I stripped it down, etch primered it, sandable primered it and then when I got it going and was going to keep working on her I bought a gallon of dark grey primer and mixed in a pint of low gloss black paint and it lasted for 2 years with no rust appearing so far.  It's getting stripped for paint now so I will know for sure if it worked or not.  There is a powder that PPG makes you add to make paint flat, you can use any brand enamel or color.  Thats how they made those satin finishes on street rods and flat black also.  Only thing is it's a one shot deal, spray it on and your done.  No wet sanding or buffing, rubbing out or waxing ever.  Just wash and go, it's kind of cool but I want mine to shine.

[Keith Mopar]

Automan63, you recommended a coat of SEM self etching primer # 39673 black spray can. I take it this is available in grey as well, and what brand is it? (PPG as well)
Also PPG DP 90 LF Epoxy primer w/hardner, is this primer part no. for black or can they tint it any colour, or is it a different part no. for different colors?

Thanks, great write up, for us non body guys! 

[automan63]

Keith;
Well the brand of the etch primer is SEM, comes in three colors, Black Green, and Gray. here's a link for so you can see what it looks like. http://www.levineautoparts.com/semseletprim.html    DP LF primers are available in different colors.

40 is gray green
48 is white
50 is gray
60 is light blue (didn't know they made this one till recently)
74 is red oxide
90 is black
They all use the same hardner and no I dont believe you should tint them with anything other than a different color of DP, 74 red with 50 gray or something like that .  Jeff.

[Keith Mopar]

Thansk you automan63, you have me on the right track!

[automan63]

Glad I can help, I've learned a lot here, from others as well the tech pages. There's no better place for the Mopar guys that I've found. If you need anything else, ask away.

[MyCreation68]

thanks for the help. Just one more question where would I find those types of paint and how much would I need? Cost estimate?

[urchinhead]

Just bear in mind that the flat black will fade (chalk out) and wear off over time. When it begins to get chalky it will come off on your hands and clothes and make them black. I wouldnt do it.

  I think the issue seems settled, but I just wanted to reiterate. I drove a primered car around for about three years. and it got chalky after about a year, and I had to reprime it. I wasn't going for a primer look, I was just in high school and saving my money for a better car.

[65DartGT]

My car has two coats of gray primer,and a good coat of clear,been that way for four years, no probs so far. Sprayed it myself so it only cost me about 200 bucks.

[gocirino]

I would recommend using PPG DX 1791/1792 Etch Primer only. DX 170/171/172/173 are not compatable with DP Epxoy Primers.

[MyCreation68]

Couple more questions.
Is this something i can do in a couple sections at a time? like when I replace say my driver side QTR Panel can I etch and epoxy prime just that panel?
Should I go to the effort of using body filler where I need it? I found a website talking about filler on bare metal and filler on epoxy primer in a compairison http://www.autobodystore.com/filler_&_epoxy.htm What filler should I use?

[automan63]

My--68
Well I like to use Epoxy primer first cuz it seals the metal, then put my filler over it (for me, I use Car Sstems "Voss Euro-Gold" Part #3139859 and for finish Voss "Euro 843" finishing putty Part # 138.843)   Filler ,for me at least must have two primary things, low shrinkage, (would'nt we all like that !!) and ease of sanding, low shrinkage being the most important. I dont think there's better moistue resistance and adhesion then filler over epoxy, but again, thats just from what I've read and been taught. As to your question about your D/S QTR, I would do exactly that, sand to bare, etch, BTW the aftermarket, (re-pro qtr's) aren't really EDP'd so I strip that off, at least on the outside, its just a shipping coat, anyway etch then epoxy, then wait a day, then do your body work and re-epoxy then primer surfacer (filling primer) and a coat or two of paint to seal till your ready. You can always sand and repaint the panels all at once when your ready V/S re-doing everything due to moisture penetration.

[MyCreation68]

Thanks much automan63. It's nice to be able to ask a bunch of questions(I know I have! ) and be able to great such great answers from knowledgable people. only question now what color looks more badass? light grey or black .

Thanks. It's nice to know that I can replace the panels when I have time and It won't be to screwy with the paint. I have to replace both 1/4's, rockers and fenders(wrong year-69 on a 68) Anything you know Of I can use to protect inside the panels?

now only if I could win that millionaire life lotto(1 million a year for 25 years) I'd do the dart up all at once but unfortunatly we all can't just write checks .

as you can see she's pretty well rusted out all along the bottom(sat for 10 years before I bought it and has sat for 4 more)

[automan63]

No problem with the answers, I do what I can.  I've gotten plenty here also, and It's nice to be able to give back.  what color are you going to be painting your car in the end? That kinda dictates what you use for primer, at least in my world. You dont want to make it hard on yourself for color coverage in the end.   So give it some thought.   Light colored paints over light colored primer..ECT. what are you going to do with the inside panels after you cut off your QTR's say? For my money I sandblast everything and then epoxy everything, epoxy the new panels inside, and PPG makes five colors of them, and weld them on. Rust proof with a wax based "cavity wax" nice and drooly runs into all the cracks after welding. Also, make sure you use "weld thru primer". I like the brush on kind.  , wish I was  millionare too,   Ask as many questions as you can think of, and I'll do my best to answer them. If you need product info, at least for what I use, ask me that too, and its on its way. Jeff. If you would like to call I can give you my # in PM, just ask

[MyCreation68]

Well my car was painted this Dark Metallic Green color(the upper door where it's painted the exterior color hasn't faded at all). If You've ever seen the green 1968 Dart GTS that Highway 61 makes thats the color I want. although I think I'll paint the hood a flat black permanently(I hate glare off a hood, my ramcharger is so bad for it, my 98 SST isn't so bad because of the vinyl stripes.

[automan63]

For me, on a dark green, I'd use a dark grey primer.