440 block pics and drilling

[Steve DeTar]

here's the lay out from the pump.

[speedymopars]

Here's some pic's for you guys that want to Modify for block for better oiling.  Mopars main oil gallery is roughly a 9/16 bore all the way thru the block on both sides.  The bad deal is every lifter passes thru each gallery meaning, you have 16 points of leakage, not including a massive leak in the # 4 main, which feds #4 cam journal, which is timed, to feed each rockershaft assy.  All the holes in this late 77 440 block were a 1/4, these are the feed holes that come down from the passenger "Main" oil gallery.  As you can see in the pic, #2, #3, #4, #5, are fed off of the main oil gallery.  #1 is fed off the front which intersects the pass over passage that is cast into the front of the block from the oil pump pad.

[attachment deleted by admin]

Why are all of the page 1 pics gone??!!

[69 GTS Clonvertible]

What's the recomendations for oil galeys on a 392 hemi?

[Steve DeTar]

Jim Lusk removed them.  I was only trying to help.

[fourspeed]

Jim Lusk removed them.

No, I'm sure he didn't. I believe all the pics older than a certain age get deleted automatically. It keeps the web site under control. THAT is one of the reasons I said this should be a tech article. That way, it's here to stay!! Someday, I'll want to refer back to this information when I finally build a big block.

I hope you still have all the pics on your computer.

Mark

[myrtle]

Agreed,..
Is there any way to rehost/repost the initial pics from this thread. I have a decent build up of a 440 coming up and would like to drill my block much the way you have.

Thanks alot.

[flyboy01]

Crap, I needed those pictures.

[R5-P7 project]

Hello friends,  I thought I would show you how I plug the driverside oil
gallery. This first photo shows me tapping the gallery plug deeper into
the block. You need to go far enough to block the horizontal feed line
comming from the oil sender area.

Now you need to run this plug through a die, because this is a taper plug
and won't go deep enough unless you do.

Can you see the plug way up in there?

Finally, put the original plug in to make sure the line is sealed.

I'm in no way trying to take away from Steve's proceedure, just adding to it another
way to accomplish the same goal.           Cheers,  Budd

[pwmax]

Thats another waste of time. Why restric oil to the lifters? Now adays, you run a EDM'd lifter or, groove the lifter bores, or, run a pressure fed lifter, to keep the cam and or lifters oiled better, with all the advancements in cam and valve trains, you NEED to oil that stuff better, and, it just lives longer, especialy flat tappet solid cams, they are very picky these days, and restricting oil to them is risky. Even bleed off from the holes in the lifter bores, that gets by, is a plus here, to give some much needed oil to a very stressed component.  Like I said WAY back in this thread, do this stuff if you want, but its old school, and is a waste of time. 7000rpm,  even the smaller, 440 sized pick up tube is WAY more than adequate. Then, you go with an external single line, or dual line swinging pick up, that feeds a rediculous amount of oil. If you clearances are set right, you use the correct oil pan, and pump, I have NEVER had a bearing issue, because the bearings are starved from oil. Seariously. 5500-6500 rpm street engines, Melling HV pump, a windage tray, and the stock sized pick-up, will deliver 75 pounds of pressure, without any fluctualions in oil pressure. Even beyond that.

What I see happeneing, for the "enthusiast" at home, is broken off reemers, and drill bits, jammed into oil galley holes you can't get out, then what? The only thing I do, is port the oil passage, from the outside of the block, where there is a 90 degree turn, to feed the pick-up. I port and radius the 90 degree bend, and make sure none of the holes are plugged, or drilled funny. Thats all you need to do. The oiling on a mopar is quite good.

Frank
Advanced Performance
www.get-ap.com

[375InStroke]

5500-6500 rpm street engines, Melling HV pump, a windage tray, and the stock sized pick-up, will deliver 75 pounds of pressure, without any fluctualions in oil pressure. Even beyond that.
Frank
Advanced Performance
www.get-ap.com

Where are you taking the pressure measurements, and with what type of gauge?  A mechanical gauge with the correct size tube has almost no delay, and will show a lot of fluctuation in oil pressure, even when connected to the stock oil port, where an electric gauge may show a rock steady pressure reading.  One place we are talking about is the #4 main and the rods fed from it.  With the intermittent bleed-off of oil through the cam and rockers, oil pressure could, and probably does, fluctuate at the bearing, but wouldn't show up at the gauge, since the gauge is connected to the oil gallery.

[pwmax]

An analoug type mechanical gauge from the dyno, and electronic, both. You could be right about #4, but, like I said, I have never had an issue. Even on 1000+hp B-1 engines, spinning 7500+. I think I am fairly well qualified to make my statements, considering I do this stuff for a living. Trust me, if it made a difference, you bet i would do it. I don;t, because, it doesn;t make a diff. Like I said, making sure the feed holes aren't obstructed and boogered up, is all you need do. With an HV pump, there is a rediculous amount of oil flowing thru the engine. Certain engines, like an olds, or an AMC, or a Buick, you better be doing any oiling mod there is, as, these engines have serious oiling issues, and, won;t live if you start leaning hard on them, a Mopar, just isn;t like that. A stock eliminator, or Superstock type deal, where, some guys are are using oil pan, and oil level modifications, for every last possible HP, and, your oil gauge is fluttering off of 10 or 0 at the top end of the track at 8000rpm, yah, then modify the passages. BUt, for a mild street engine, or serious bracket car, where you are using the correct parts, its a non issue. Like I said, if you want to do the stuff, Steve did a great job, of documenting the steps necessary to do it, and gives great advise on the correct way to do the mods, then, follow along with post and do the stuff. But, all I am sayin is, its un-necessary

Frank
Advanced Performance
www.get-ap.com

[Steve DeTar]

5500-6500 rpm street engines, Melling HV pump, a windage tray, and the stock sized pick-up, will deliver 75 pounds of pressure, without any fluctualions in oil pressure. Even beyond that.
Frank
Advanced Performance
www.get-ap.com

Where are you taking the pressure measurements, and with what type of gauge?  A mechanical gauge with the correct size tube has almost no delay, and will show a lot of fluctuation in oil pressure, even when connected to the stock oil port, where an electric gauge may show a rock steady pressure reading.  One place we are talking about is the #4 main and the rods fed from it.  With the intermittent bleed-off of oil through the cam and rockers, oil pressure could, and probably does, fluctuate at the bearing, but wouldn't show up at the gauge, since the gauge is connected to the oil gallery.

He is correct.  The main supply will not collect any data at the #4 Main bearing as it is ocillating the pressure, from both sides of the rockers,  if it is plumbed from the main oil gallerys at the back of the block where your gauge is at.   The deal with number cam bearing 4 is that it feeds to the rockers, which bleed of the the atmoshere. at 1/2 speed of the crank...pressure falls to zero, leakage via rocker arms.    Almost want me to plumb a direct line to #4 cam journal just to see it flucuate.  The deal is the quality if the rockers were bushed for less leakage, so the drop to zero is not so much. Since this "sharing" is only hapening at the #4 main, it make a different reading.   That is why I have no problem with the heads been fed off of the main oil gallery, back of the block to both external oil line feeds,  instead of the #4 main bearing. 

[speedymopars]

What about the feed the lifter galley from both sides trick? You use an external oil filter setup, and take both outs - one to the normal oil pump in, and one to the back of the block. Now oil is pressurizing the galley from the front and the back, and the natural meet in the middle ends up around the number 4 journal.

I did this as the only oiling trick on a 7500 rpm 440 a couple of times over, I didn't have an issue. Did I get lucky, or was it unnessasary?

[sally01]

   I strongly disagree with the suggestion of drilling the block.  Mr. DeTar is correct the greatest loss of oil is the tappet bores.  Best solution is to brass wall those bores and doing so requires solid lifters.  To reduce the oil loss through rockers via #4 cam bearing it is possible to reduce by installing  restrictor in bore to #4 cam bearing.  It is acceptable to also restrict flow to all cam bearings.  Remember, cam turns only half crank speed and bearing surface is much smaller.  B abd RB blocks are notorious for poor oiling system.  If you are going to spin the engine 5,000 RPM or greater an investment in Milodon dual line pickup is worthwhile.  Better oil pumps than the original 4 lobe are available.  First rod bearings to burn are #2 and #3 fed off of number two main.  Number 2 main is first to run out of oil.  Cost of brass wall tappet bores is much less than block replacement.

[bOb shingler]

gee and to think i always thought #5 & #6 were the first to take a hit.

[hbear4hw]

Pulhair^*This is for Steve Detar or anyone else that can help, I recentley bought a 400 stroked and bored to 474, It has the
lifter bores bushed. Can anyone tell me why this has to be done. This was a race motor that I planed to change to
a hot street motor, By the way this is a roller cammed motor, 684 lift 280 duration at 50thouands.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, also in need of a set of Pro Parts headers if anyone out there has some,
They are currantley out of production according to Mazzolini, until he gets someone else to do them for him.

                                                                                                            Thanks Again

[Steve DeTar]

Lifter bores are usually bushed for a few reasons, lifter bore alignment(indexing) and to control oil leakage in 16 places. Since it free's up friction, it can add some horsepower.  Also, sometimes a lifter bore is damaged, or already oversized, so bushing it would bring it back down to mopar spec's.  Some roller cam lifters are not all created equal, meaning at max lift, the main oil gallery gets exposed and pressure drops to zero!  I take it you are going to swap out the cam and put in a hydraulic?  Steve

[nopar66]

how to swap 440 my 318  . can i use the trans from my 318 or not. i think not. not too old to learn i hope. any and all info. its a 72 scamp ca. car thanks tommy.

[Steve DeTar]

I think this can be useful.  Sorry I haven't linked it before.
http://www.bigblockdart.com/index.php/topic,29886.0.html

[satellite65]

I like that mod but plan on running needle bearing rockers. Would it be possible to drill and tap the first layer for the 1/4-28 set screws and drill the second layer to .035" or .040" to get full time oiling without losing oil pressure?