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Topic: need a NJ painter / body guy (Read 746 times)
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eldubb440
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I have to like the person, and trust that they know what their in for.
 once it becomes unfriendly, its over. thats why labor is paid up front; not all at once, but in advance |
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Mopars, AMCs, and a pile of 440 Dart
You're all worthless and weak; now drop and give me twenty!
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bbscamp
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I've seen edbubb440's work...very nice. He can even get paint to look awesome on AMC metal! I've been downt the rust repair road already with the Chally. Auto Rust Technicians just sent me the car back. Lots and lots of rust repair done....its all final body and paint now. I hit 118 hrs labor at $65 per hour plus ~ $800 in parts (caps,connectors, torque boxes, new deck lid and rear valence). Pricey....but its now rock solid for the 440. Automan63: 6-700 hrs?  ? 600 hrs. at $65 is a $39,000 paint job plus materials. A little steep for me... I figure that without paint and interior...I'm at about 15K already. $2000 for the interior (new dash is $700!! ouch), $5,000 paint......and I'm at $22000....hopefully done. |
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eldubb440
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I've seen edbubb440's work...very nice. He can even get paint to look awesome on AMC metal!
thanks Mike, that AMC metal is a real bitch.........the fact you are able to do alot of the disassembly, cleaning, organizing, and reassembly yourself obviously cuts into the overall labor bill big time. also, buying new parts cuts into the hours but still racks up the bill on the other end. like i said, every job is unique. i cant buy anything for my Rebel Machine. that job will be almost all labor.......... my Coronet R/T hood that i rebuilt in another thread is already worth a grand. by the time its bodyworked, prepped, painted, and buffed it will be worth more than 2 grand. add the cost of materials and i have a 2500 dollar hood. none of these cars were worth restoring 10 years ago; and unless its a hemi or six-pak car, they still may not be worth it. |
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Mopars, AMCs, and a pile of 440 Dart
You're all worthless and weak; now drop and give me twenty!
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thebankerstoy
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Ok, here a view from a car guy, who has done it both ways, meaning that I've done most of the restoration work on some of my cars and I've had different shops do most of the work on a few of my cars, such as was done on my son's 72 Dart Swinger in 2005-2006. Restoring a car is a lose / lose situation for BOTH the owner AND the shop doing the work! On one hand, the car owner will have a TREMENDOUS amount of money in their properly restored "driver" that they will NEVER get back out of the car when it is sold and the shop doing the work will almost ALWAYS end up losing money on restoration work, because if they charge the customer the TRUE price of all of their work on the project, they will almost NEVER get the job because of the pricing. No matter HOW you want to look at restoration work, it is ALL CUSTOM WORK! There is no factory "assembly line" to do restoration work. It's a single shop and it's few employees doing EVERYTHING that a HUGE factory assembly line did when the car was originally built, PLUS this small shop and it's employees are dealing with in most cases, 35 to 45 year old cars, that have been used and abused, NOT brand new parts like the factory had when the cars were new!  If you folks knew how much time, effort and money that I've spent on my son's 72 Dart Swinger, you would call me absolutely CRAZY, but as we ALL know, once you get into a project, it just seems that your "simple restoration project" almost ALWAYS turns into a MAJOR investment!  In my case, my son's Dart started out as a simple project to rebuild the cars original 318 engine and 904 transmission. From there, we decided that since we had the engine and transmission out of the car, we might as well take a look at the front suspension and brakes. From there we thought that it would be a shame to put a fresh engine and transmission back into a rattle can black engine compartment, so a trip to the body shop was planned to repaint the engine compartment. Well, since the engine bay was now looking so nice, HOW could we put all of those original and dirty old engine compartment parts and pieces back in there? I think that you can see where I'm going with this story, so I won't give you ALL of the parts and pieces that were replaced on this "driver", but let me just say that EVERY SINGLE PIECE ON THIS CAR WAS EITHER REPLACED OR REPAIRED and all of a sudden, this "driver" had as much or MORE work done to it, than my 66 Coronet had done to it in it's restoration!!!! ![\/][](http://www.bigblockdart.com/Smileys/classic/finger020.gif) I will NEVER be able to sell this 72 Dart and get anywhere NEAR what I have invested in it, so in my humble opinion, there IS NO SUCH THING as a "DRIVER" restoration these days, as your going to have ALOT of money invested in a top notch car, PERIOD!!! By the way, I had my son's Dart appraised by a large, well known appraisal company for insurance purposes in 2006 after it's restoration was completed and even though they gave it VERY high ratings in ALL catagories and gave it a stated value of over $22.000.00, but that STILL doesn't cover the total investment we have in this "driver" if it should be stolen or totaled, so anybody who still thinks they can build a REALLY nice "driver" for next to nothing, all I can say is GOOD LUCK my friends!!! All I can say is, if your having ANY thoughts of "borrowing" this Dart without it's owners permission, DON"t worry about fearing the big dogs, FEAR the owners!!!  With all of the money that I have tied up in my Mopar cars and trucks, I can't afford the dogs!!!  Richard [attachment deleted by admin] |
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Chevy's, Ford's and imports are breakfast of champions MOPARS RULE!
God member on old forum with 1276 posts
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automan63
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Nice to see someone that "figured it out" allbeit, the hard way.  When I try to explain this stuff people just think I'm nuts. I tell people all the time to expect to spend between 40 and 50 grand to do a car thats not a total shitbox. If their still standing after that then we talk about a starting date. That usually filters out the tire kickers right away. For whatever reason, people still think 5 grand is alot of money when it somes to this "sport" if you will. I love the guy thats had a 67 vette in his garage since high school and then sees one go on barret jackson for 200 thousand then thinks "if I get a paint job, mine will be worth that" and then he comes here and hears 40 to 45 grand to get his car "there" and has friggin coronary. This business kills me..... |
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eldubb440
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people doing their own "dirty work" need to count their own hours and put a price on them. fortunately, i have been blessed with the ability and situation to do ALL my own work; i could never afford to pay a shop to do it for me, and i would never be comfortable with someones "employees" working on my car......i have some professional grade equpment such as steam genny, blasters (big and small), rotissary, plasma cutter, welder, ect.; even with good tools, QUALITY RESTO WORK TAKES FOR EVER.
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Mopars, AMCs, and a pile of 440 Dart
You're all worthless and weak; now drop and give me twenty!
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thebankerstoy
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Westernstar, and anyone else who reads this post, PLEASE don't take my thoughts personally, as it's a GENERAL STATEMENT to ANYONE who is considering paint and body work and NOT meant as an attack on ANYONE personally ok? It SOUNDS like a great idea to do all of your own "dirty work" and then turn it over to the body shop to shoot the new paint, but if you ask MOST of the professional paint and body guy's, they aren't really very happy about having to spray a REALLY nice top coat over a customer's prep and body work. Unless your a good friend, most of them won't even do that kind of work. After all, it's THEIR reputation that's on the line with EVERY project that they do, so they will want control over the ENTIRE project, not just the paint application. The "do it your selfers" REALLY need to LISTEN to folks like automan63 and eldubb440, who do, or did paint and body work for a LIVING, just about ANYBODY can do a "20 footer" restoration job in their own garage, but if you want a REALLY NICE restoration, that's done the right way the FIRST time, you will have to pay for their time and effort that a PROFESSIONAL paint and body shop will give you! They ARE profesionals, just like your doctor, lawyer and CPA are, so why do we think that paint and body pro's should do their work for less than the going rate? You will get what you pay for, so if your happy with a 20 to 50 footer, do the work yourself at home, if you want a ride that looks awesome from any angle from any distance, go see a pro that has the tools and knowledge that you don't have in your garage. Richard |
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Logged
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Chevy's, Ford's and imports are breakfast of champions MOPARS RULE!
God member on old forum with 1276 posts
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Westernstar
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Westernstar, and anyone else who reads this post, PLEASE don't take my thoughts personally, as it's a GENERAL STATEMENT to ANYONE who is considering paint and body work and NOT meant as an attack on ANYONE personally ok? It SOUNDS like a great idea to do all of your own "dirty work" and then turn it over to the body shop to shoot the new paint, but if you ask MOST of the professional paint and body guy's, they aren't really very happy about having to spray a REALLY nice top coat over a customer's prep and body work. Unless your a good friend, most of them won't even do that kind of work. After all, it's THEIR reputation that's on the line with EVERY project that they do, so they will want control over the ENTIRE project, not just the paint application. The "do it your selfers" REALLY need to LISTEN to folks like automan63 and eldubb440, who do, or did paint and body work for a LIVING, just about ANYBODY can do a "20 footer" restoration job in their own garage, but if you want a REALLY NICE restoration, that's done the right way the FIRST time, you will have to pay for their time and effort that a PROFESSIONAL paint and body shop will give you! They ARE profesionals, just like your doctor, lawyer and CPA are, so why do we think that paint and body pro's should do their work for less than the going rate? You will get what you pay for, so if your happy with a 20 to 50 footer, do the work yourself at home, if you want a ride that looks awesome from any angle from any distance, go see a pro that has the tools and knowledge that you don't have in your garage. Richard Richard,i did not take your post as an attack at all.I have a teenager myself and know how anything involving them can spiral out of control. )(/*That said i would'nt miss it for the world he just needs to understand that the old man might need a nap every now and then.And as far as the little bit of work i'm doing the hot rod has two coats of lousy paint and when my body shop gets it they will still have big job.Take it easy bud. Neil |
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thebankerstoy
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Hi Neil, Absolutely NO problems here my friend. All of my gaskets are still fully sealed!  Even though I've never done paint and body work for a living, I am an older guy who has in the past, done some of my own work on some of my own cars, plus I have friends who are professionals, so I guess that I've seen more of both sides of the story on this subject, so I have a pretty good idea of what's involved with doing restoration work and it kind of amazes me that many folks just don't realize how much work is involved in a QUALITY paint job. The paint work is only as good as the body and prep work is and that type of work takes LOTS of time to get it right. In this line of work, just as with lawyers, doctors and other's, time = money. All I'm trying to say is this, if someone has the talent and tools to do their own paint and body work, AWESOME, but if you want a shop to do the work, PLEASE don't give the shop owner grief when they give you a quote for a quality job at the going rate. Richard |
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Chevy's, Ford's and imports are breakfast of champions MOPARS RULE!
God member on old forum with 1276 posts
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automan63
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Bankerstoy: Thanks for the vote of confidence. You know, I think all these TV shows (American chopper, American hotrod, and the like) arent really doing the body/paint/resto business much good, especially when they spend days fabricating brackets and things, (and I'm not suggesting that it doesnt take that kind of time) but then they always say "ok, send it off to paint" with all the welds not ground, grinder marks, dents ECT. Then it seems to be done in a day or two (at least thats what they make it look like). Maybe people really think that its that easy because they dont see the ARMY they have behind the scenes working 24 hrs in a row to make that happen. I'd love to see any of what they do in three months time just to see the shrinkage in all the bodywork alone. It all looks good on camera............
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bbscamp
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From my point of view. I'll strip a car down, essentially to a shell, repair all the rust....and will clean blast and paint every part before it goes back together.....yup...a ton of hours. My labor is free...I understand a business's is not. So lets figure I'm will to spend $65 an hour. I can accept that the prep work to make a driver....is the same as the prep to make a decent show car. But the care and time to make it a "Trailer Class" show car is not warranted. But to prep the panels....do some light ding / corrective work and to shoot base / clear can't be done for a $5K budget? If you throw a number out of $60K to paint it...just be honest and tell the guy you don't want to do his car. I know that most shops want to replace and spray insurance hits. That's the bread and butter. But what is someone in my position to do? 1) Do it myself? buy the equipment? build an enclosure? honorable yes.....but I know my limits! 2) Maaco for a $500-$1000 special? yikes 3) Get a shop work on it "when they can fit it in??" man...that's a disaster in the making...no one will be happy. 4) ?? Now...I have to get it done in 2 steps. Step 1 is the underside and inside areas. Step 2, next year, the outside spray. Why? I can't have a painted car in the shop with tons of kids and "visitors"....milling about it Suggestions? |
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eldubb440
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quality primer, paint, and clear will run a grand, give or take.........and you are probably underestimating the fitting, mudwork, priming, blocking, repriming, prepping, painting, sanding, buffing, cleaning, ect. .......being a one man show; and buried in cars and parts, makes it impossible to commit to anything for at least the next 6 - 12 months; but id be open to looking your car over and at least giving you some solid advice......from your position, i know it is just as difficult to commit to a shop. id hate to see you get boned.
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Mopars, AMCs, and a pile of 440 Dart
You're all worthless and weak; now drop and give me twenty!
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bbscamp
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Thanks for the offer! No rush. The rebuild won't start until september on this one. AbodyJoe is gonna come up and visit one of these days......so maybe you guys might want to shoot up together. week days are best.....but weekends work to. Joe has been here before...so he knows the way...
Mike
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abodyjoe
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yea man i want to get up there again.. mark i'll take a ride there if you want..
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dangerdawg
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you get what you pay for, anything after that is "gravy" besides, if it does get hit, taken off that paint later, really sucks......................experience. now, getting it back to somewhat halfway there seems soooooo far away. just want to drive it again!
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