need a NJ painter / body guy

[bbscamp]

I'm looking for a body guy to paint the chally.  I'm undercided as to how to get it done too.

I'm thinking 2 steps.  First:  all the door jambs, trunk ,engine bay, underside of lid.  The finish the build then have th outside painted.  OR   have it all done without the engine /trans installed, then finish the build.  Opinions?

But the first thing is.....can anyone recomend a good shop in the NJ area?    just looking for good driver quality......not a show car.

[mopowers]

I'm looking for a body guy to paint the chally.  I'm undercided as to how to get it done too.

I'm thinking 2 steps.  First:  all the door jambs, trunk ,engine bay, underside of lid.  The finish the build then have th outside painted.  OR   have it all done without the engine /trans installed, then finish the build.  Opinions?

But the first thing is.....can anyone recomend a good shop in the NJ area?    just looking for good driver quality......not a show car.

Eldubs house?

[eldubb440]

im just a back yard hacker.......up to my eyeballs in disassembled cars (7)..... id love to help, but thats a big commitment;  i just dont see how i could. i dont do this for a living anymore, nor do i have a "legit" paint facility. i used to.... a few years ago, id be all over it.

[Westernstar]

I will do and have done all the body and painting done first.I will not install my motor and trans in the car then leave it at a "body shop" for two weeks.A rolling car is not much of a target for theives but install $9-10,000 worth of motor and tranny and it will disappear overnite.

[automan63]

What shape is the body in? Like "ready for paint, or needs all the panels bodyworked and then primer/surfacer, then paint? Just curious, and no insult intended here, but, what, in your mind, is the difference in a show & driver quality paint job? I hear the "I dont want a show car, just a nice driver" statement all the time. Again, no insult intended, just trying to understand from the perspective of a consumer V/S myself, a shop owner.

[automan63]

I will do and have done all the body and painting done first.I will not install my motor and trans in the car then leave it at a "body shop" for two weeks.A rolling car is not much of a target for theives but install $9-10,000 worth of motor and tranny and it will disappear overnite.

Westernstar, where are you located?

[automan63]

im just a back yard hacker.......up to my eyeballs in disassembled cars (7)..... id love to help, but thats a big commitment;  i just dont see how i could. i dont do this for a living anymore, nor do i have a "legit" paint facility. i used to.... a few years ago, id be all over it.

eldubb, what, no booth at home ? You got your own fleet, might as well buy one, hell, its a write off !! 

[eldubb440]

eldubb, what, no booth at home ? You got your own fleet, might as well buy one, hell, its a write off !! 

been there, done that........got out of the business a few years ago. built me a nice shop at home; no overhead, no stress. people are too hard to deal with. i found new ways to make money. i just want to build my cars before im too old.

[automan63]

eldubb, what, no booth at home ? You got your own fleet, might as well buy one, hell, its a write off !! 

i found new ways to make money.

Oh do tell, whats the secret? 

[eldubb440]

eldubb, what, no booth at home ? You got your own fleet, might as well buy one, hell, its a write off !! 

i found new ways to make money.

Oh do tell, whats the secret? 

hook up with a rich babe 

[bbscamp]

I'd say a show finish is one where there are no dry edges, even inside the door jambs....hinge side.  Show finishes are laser straight down the sides....exactly like no Mopars ever were off the line!  I'm looking for a finsh that has complete smooth coverage...certainly I don't expect glass flat  It should have no dings / dents...but some original surface waves from panel stamping is acceptable.   

What I would NOT like is:  overspray onto the any existing trim and rubber parts (not that there is much left at all on the car); missing painted areas on the underside of the rocker or any other low areas...just cause the painter didn't want to bend to shoot there.   I don't want the B5 blue to be barely recognizeable as B5 blue, I'd like it close.  I also don't want vapor pops, and small rodents stuck to the paint.  I also don't want it to be buffed out where the paint looks mottled and blotchy where the metallic is rubbed out in areas.  (yeah...maaco did a shop car for us once...)

Currently, all the rust repair is done, but any repaired areas still needed final filling / sanding / sealer-prime.  There are no dents...but probably some dings that should be removed.  Front fenders need final fitting (removed for cowl repairs) and temp. put back on.

I'm in central NJ

[automan63]

eldubb, what, no booth at home ? You got your own fleet, might as well buy one, hell, its a write off !! 

i found new ways to make money.

Oh do tell, whats the secret? 

hook up with a rich babe 

Hmmm.........I dont think my wife would approve...........

[automan63]

I'd say a show finish is one where there are no dry edges, even inside the door jambs....hinge side.  Show finishes are laser straight down the sides....exactly like no Mopars ever were off the line!  I'm looking for a finsh that has complete smooth coverage...certainly I don't expect glass flat  It should have no dings / dents...but some original surface waves from panel stamping is acceptable.   

What I would NOT like is:  overspray onto the any existing trim and rubber parts (not that there is much left at all on the car); missing painted areas on the underside of the rocker or any other low areas...just cause the painter didn't want to bend to shoot there.   I don't want the B5 blue to be barely recognizeable as B5 blue, I'd like it close.  I also don't want vapor pops, and small rodents stuck to the paint.  I also don't want it to be buffed out where the paint looks mottled and blotchy where the metallic is rubbed out in areas.  (yeah...maaco did a shop car for us once...)

Currently, all the rust repair is done, but any repaired areas still needed final filling / sanding / sealer-prime.  There are no dents...but probably some dings that should be removed.  Front fenders need final fitting (removed for cowl repairs) and temp. put back on.

I'm in central NJ

Well, your not too far from that "show finish"
The paint match to B5 shouldnt be a problem for just about anybody. All the other things you wish are regular everyday things you'd expect even from Macco, at least the one near me. Mottling and blotchiness at this point would be poor application of the basecoat by the painter, dont blame ya there. But no small rodents? Come-on man...your taking all the fun out of it. As for glass smooth, you can do that even years later sanding and buffing. So the moral of the story, at least for me anyways, is there's not too much of a difference between a show car and a daily driver except the trailer. Thanks for being honest. Most people I've asked this question of have dodged the answer, of course they were looking for a price from me at the time also. Jeff. P.S. I live in Mass so NJ is a little out of my nabe.

[eldubb440]

any mettalic color should be clear coated, that solves  the "buffing into the metallics problem".........other things to consider; how to finish backsides of fenders, outside of front "inner" fenders,  rear wheelwells, and the backsides of front and rear valence. if the car is apart, it makes sense to spend some time on these areas(this would include removing the front suspension,more cleaning and painting) i prefer body color over a textured "body shutz" type of finish. i suppose a black undercoat is an acceptable shortcut, but its hard to decide where to end the color and start the black..........also, i would never paint anything unless i fit all the panels in a mock-up first...... THEY ALL SEEM TO TURN INTO SHOW CARS!!!!   

[eldubb440]

Well, your not too far from that "show finish"
 So the moral of the story, at least for me anyways, is there's not too much of a difference between a show car and a daily driver except the trailer.

  1,000,000,000%

[bbscamp]

Right now the entire underside is satin black rustproof prime.  It was blasted when the floors were replaced and the torque boxes / frame connectors were added.  I'm going to keep all the undersides black....either painted or undercoated.  I'll probably do black and undercoat in the wheel wells.    All the suspension components will be gloss black.  Every part will be sandblasted / rustproofed and painted.  I like to use the rustoleum hard hat black and let it cure MONTHS to harden up.  We'll spray 5 coats or so...as it goes on thin.

My time frame is to at least have the jambs / trunk / engine areas painted by this summer.   The problem is I don't want the exterior finished just to have it sit in the school shop getting banged up and abused over the next year.  I'd like to have it in the shop a minimum amount of time after exterior paint. 

[eldubb440]

i think i can speak for automan(and myself).........any body/paint guy worth a damn would put out a near perfect finish. its just part of the job. sounds like you are building a show car to me, and body color in the wheelwells isnt that much extra work; but like i said, black is acceptable

[bbscamp]

just because the suspension is painted its a show car?  nahhh....   I'd say a show car has alll that stuff chromed or P coated!  too much money for me to do that.   once its off the car...its no big deal to blast and paint the part, no matter where it goes.  It will be driven....no trailerd.  Maybe my definition of show car needs improvement.  I thought that what I was building was driver quality.

What is your definition of "driver" quality? 

[automan63]

Well, I'll take that question I guess. Driver quality is really in the eye of the beholder. In reality, at least in my world, the definition of "Driver" and "Show Car" has been blurred over the years. Most people these days really dont trailer their cars to shows anymore, a few do, maybe 10%. What good is a car you cant drive? Now....a Museum Car is what USED to be a "Show Car" and who wants to own one of those anyways. What is called a "Driver" today tends to be the "Show Car" of yesterday thats now driven. I find in my business that people think there's a huge price difference between "Driver" and "Show" quality, not true. Very very few things are different. It takes just as much work, if not more to build a "Driver" than anything else. For example for a true "Show Car" you would never ever even consider washing it, ever, so as not to cause the moisture to start the corrosion process again un-necessarily, where as a "Driver" you have to consider things like corrosion protection behind all the panels, especially ones that have been changed. So.........Driver, Show Car, or Driver, driven to the Show, there all the same to me, and many in my profession. I get a kick out of all the new terms out there today, such as "nut and bolt restoration" or "rotisserie restoration". Its all the same to me, if your gonna do it, then do it and get it over with. Kinda like "I dont want a frame off, I just want a paint job, remove all the panels and re-fit them, do the jambs and undersides, firewall, and front of the frame put all the glass back in and put back all the chrome and interior" for a 67 Cutless vert. I had that one a week and a half ago. I asked the guy what the difference between his way and take the body off, paint the motor and do the rest of the frame, he said "I'm not making a show car, I just want a car I can drive to a show here and there and take a trophy or two, ".        At the end of the day, we all want the same thing, a car we can be proud to own and drive, but unfortunetly that cost a lot of money. My 71 Scamp will cost me well over 10 grand just in suspension, wheels & tires. The car will end up costing me in the range of 35,+ and I'm doing it all myself. My car will never go to a show. Most people have no idea what their getting themselves into.

[signet]

you have to leave some dents and door dings on a driver, so you don't pop a blood vessel when they magicly appear.

rain flying rocks bird shite,sounds like you want a museum piece, not a driver..

[eldubb440]

 in my opinion; a "driver" quality job is simply masked, and painted all one color; and looks good from 20 feet away. basically, the maaco job you referred to earlier........  if the car has been 100% disassembled, all parts bare metal and painted with quality primers and topcoats, and a high quality polished paint job; it will be nicer in comparison to 99% of the cars you see at shows, therefore it is a show car...... chrome and powder coating just makes it more of a custom job,  mo money!     

[71 demon child]

It's hard to not do a show quality job when you know you are capable of it.It makes you feel like you short changed yourself.My buddy had me do a "quickie" for him because he was in a jam.Bodywork was already done.I just had to spray it.Needless to say when i was done i told him if he told anybody that i sprayed this that he would end up in the hospital .As you can tell it still bothers me to this day and that was 15 yrs ago.(the guy was tickled pink,go figure).

carl

[elliskev2]

I find your subject interesting. You guys have some good points. I had my 70 Runner painted by a body guy that works for a dealership bodyshop.
He did my car at his home garage. Well I told him I wasn't looking for a showcar quality. The car was near completely apart. (And still is, after 2 years.)
Well He did a crap job...It is definitly a 20 footer. Needless to say I'm not happy. I want to have it redone. I would use caution with what you tell a
body shop. you just might get what you asked for. Now I didn't cheap out on him...I kept telling him to let me know if it would take some more work,
or money. But maybe we didn't quite have a meeting of the minds. It definitly was a hard lesson learned. Go to a good shop, pay alittle more, and
be happy and proud of your results.

[automan63]

elliskev2: From what I read, and I must say, a very honest post BTW, I like the "be careful what you ask for" best. I think if people (that came to me anyway) would just be very clear in what their expectations are, with me as well as themselves, things would go a lot smoother. I find I constantly have to drag peoples expectations out of them. It seems that their afraid that if they just come right out and say what they really want and expect that it's gonna cost them more money. I have a sign in my office that reads,
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                         PICK TWO
                                                                                                            GOOD
                                                                                                             FAST
                                                                                                            CHEAP
                                                                                                       

[elliskev2]

elliskev2: From what I read, and I must say, a very honest post BTW, I like the "be careful what you ask for" best. I think if people (that came to me anyway) would just be very clear in what their expectations are, with me as well as themselves, things would go a lot smoother. I find I constantly have to drag peoples expectations out of them. It seems that their afraid that if they just come right out and say what they really want and expect that it's gonna cost them more money. I have a sign in my office that reads,
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                   

Thanks automan - whether your customers know it or not, you are doing them a huge favor. By asking them direct questions without beating around the bush.
 Hind sight is 2020. The next time my car will be done by reputable body shop and not in his personal garage. I paid him the final payment at his request. He claimed the few imperfections would be buffed out and he would deliver my car in the next two weeks. After two weeks  I called and he said he didn't get to it. And so the story goes for the next 2 mo.
I finally just went and picked it up.
  Oh well.. enough or that story. It will be better next time.  Right now I' m doing the

[automan63]

Everytime I hear one of these stories, it reminds me why my job can be so hard sometimes. I have to crack through that ice thats been formed by the last guy. 

[signet]

trades people who can perform the work are dying out.

trades people who can handle the aggravation of rusty bolts ect are almost non existant.

the best thing to do is spend the money on a very good car,don't start with a sow's ear expecting a silk purse.

get the estimate in writing and signed before work is performed like normal things in life,or you will get the short-end.

it is unfortunate but people forget what they say.

[eldubb440]

Everytime I hear one of these stories, it reminds me why my job can be so hard sometimes. I have to crack through that ice thats been formed by the last guy. 

this whole thread is why i got out.........its impossible to estimate restoration work.   X dollars per hour for as long as it takes......every job is unique. 500 - 1000 hours OR MORE is the norm. there are no "drivers". .......... 

[elliskev2]

Everytime I hear one of these stories, it reminds me why my job can be so hard sometimes. I have to crack through that ice thats been formed by the last guy. 

this whole thread is why i got out.........its impossible to estimate retoration work.   X dollars per hour for as long as it takes......every job is unique. 500 - 1000 hours OR MORE is the norm. there are no "drivers". .......... 

  I understand what you guys are up against. Everyone wants a low buck job then they complain in the end. The guy that did my Runner gave a good price.
But he just didn't finish the work. And I would rather not have to keep calling and asking the same things over again. He never did the trunk lid.

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[automan63]

I charge 65 per hr for custom work. I  tell people to usually expect 6-700 hours to do a complete car front to back, no drive train work or anything like that. They do a little math and start choking. Thats when the invariable "but I only paid five grand for the car" comes out of their mouth. Most people dont understand that this kind of work is almost all by hand, no machines. So thats when I have to tell em "yea, you bought it for five grand from some field and thats why its gonna cost 45 grand to make a car out of "it" again". I only do about one car every two years or so. I have to like the car, and more importantly, I have to like the person, and trust that they know what their in for.