Help Me Build a 12 Second Dart

[my64dart]

Hi,
  I'm ready to start buying the parts for my 383 Dart. I will be driving the car on the street more then anywhere else. Can you help me build a 12 second street car that will drive decently around town. I've been look'n at the Lunati (Bracket Master Cam) 292/480 . Is it essential to have a big ring & pinion to get into the 12 second range? I don't wanna do all this work & end up with another 13 or 14 second car. I'll be buying the Eddy heads for this motor build. I'm also useing an automatic transmission. Any help would be appreciated on this. If you have part numbers that would be great. The speed limit around here is
55mph, thats why I could use some help with the gear ratio.
     Thanks For Your Time & Input

[Steve DeTar]

To get the 383 run run real good, you are going to need some compression, like some pistons that are zero deck and some valve releifs in them. With a 4.28 bore, bored .030 over, and zero deck with 8cc valve pockets and a .039 head gasket, you are looking at 8.87 compression with the 84cc Ederbrock heads. Still, it would run better if you had at least 9.5 to 1, which would require some heavy milling on the Eddy heads.  It might be better just to find some closed chamber heads and have them professionally ported. With the right parts you can make 450hp with your stock stroke 383, it all about getting the combination right.

With you 230 @ .050 cam, you will need a higher stall convertor, like in the 2400 range, some 3:91's for racing. On the street side of it, some 3:55's will work fine.  What kind of intake and what kind of headers?

[my64dart]

Hi,
  This is what makes the engine build comfusing to me. Doesn't anybody sell 10 to 1 compression pistons that will work with the Eddy heads? I want to keep this very simple, with a minimum of machine work. I have a dual plane intake & a Holley 750 CFM carb with vac secondaries. I'll buy or replace anything I need to get the right combination for the 12 seconds I'm shooting for.Is it possible to turn 12 seconds with a 3:55 gear? Or do I need the 4:11?
     Thanks Again

[JD451]

Hi,
  I'm ready to start buying the parts for my 383 Dart. I will be driving the car on the street more then anywhere else. Can you help me build a 12 second street car that will drive decently around town. I've been look'n at the Lunati (Bracket Master Cam) 292/480 . Is it essential to have a big ring & pinion to get into the 12 second range? I don't wanna do all this work & end up with another 13 or 14 second car. I'll be buying the Eddy heads for this motor build. I'm also useing an automatic transmission. Any help would be appreciated on this. If you have part numbers that would be great. The speed limit around here is
55mph, thats why I could use some help with the gear ratio.
     Thanks For Your Time & Input

I had a 383 in my duster that ran 13.4s, this engine had a bone stock bottom end, factory dished pistons, stock 906s, a hughes cam (223/228@ 50, 520 lift) 750 holley, performer intake, shaumacher headers, 411s, 2800 11in conv. i shifted at 5200 with a slow 1.98 60ft. with your eddys and flat tops, you should have no problems getting into the 12s, i would run a 391 gear. also look at some of the comp XE grinds, i would think the XE274, it has 230/236@ 50 with a 110 LSA

[Michael Deakin]

I have a 383 Duster flat top pistons 0.15 in the hole Eddy 84 cc heads, comp cams hydraulic .491 lift with 1.6 roller rockers comes out to .523 lift,  holley 750 v/s rpm man 1-3/4 headers with flow masters 489 sure grip 3.55 gears 2500 con
First time out, ran best  of 12.70 at 107 mph on 325/ 15 bfg drag radials  and full exhausts.
Mike

[JD451]

Hi,
  This is what makes the engine build comfusing to me. Doesn't anybody sell 10 to 1 compression pistons that will work with the Eddy heads? I want to keep this very simple, with a minimum of machine work. I have a dual plane intake & a Holley 750 CFM carb with vac secondaries. I'll buy or replace anything I need to get the right combination for the 12 seconds I'm shooting for.Is it possible to turn 12 seconds with a 3:55 gear? Or do I need the 4:11?
     Thanks Again

Keith Black now makes a quench dome piston for the 383, its a KB400, but it won't work with the 84cc eddys, its dezined to work with an open chamber head, just get some flat top KB pistons, you will have to deck the block down, i don't think anyone makes a true high comp. flat top for the 383s anymore, either way you'll still have to mill the block to get the comp. up. you should be able to go high 12s with a 355 gear, i ran 13.8s with my 3.55s, i then ran 13.4s with 4.11s, this was with a 26/8.5 MT slick, and even with that tire size and gear, i don't think it would have been any problem on the street, i still think a 3.91 or 4.11 will work out nice, you can always go with a 28in tire.

[sr71mopar]

I think 383man has the recipe your looking for.

[383man]

This is my sons 400 Dart but it had a very mild 383 in it before that ran 12.30's @ 110. And its a bone stock body with nothing ar all done to the body other then frame connectors.  It was a stock 383 shortblock that was a 1970 block.  It even still had the stock bore and the pistons were stock and .040 down in the cyl.   I used iron 452 heads I had to mill .060 to get a true 9.6 comp.  We also did a little bowl work on the heads and that was it.  Used the MP .484 cam on a 104 centerline.  Eddy Performer RPM intake and a 750 DP.  Stock dist I recurved and the MP orange ign box.   I built the 727 stock with the Turbo Action reverse manual valve body and one of their tight 3000 stall 10" convertors.  Used 3.91's in the 8-3/4 rear.  Oh and CPPA chassis headers.  Best et was 12.31 @ 110 and my son usually ran in the 12.40's on most average days.  It was a very streetable car that he did and still does drive everywhere including to the track.   And we really loved the idle with the .484 cam.
Now it has a .030 over stock stroke 400. It uses bone stock Eddy heads and the MP .557 cam and runs mid 11's now as he wanted to go a little faster and we had this shortblock laying around.   I wanted to prove a point to someone with the 383 as I said a basically stock 383 engine with a mild cam and bolt on's should run easy 12's in the A-body so we built the 383 like that.  And I think we were right.      Ron

[Steve DeTar]

I was running 12.38's in my 360, with a 383 and compression with a decent cam,pistons,  intake and headers and torque convertor you should run high 11's with some 3:91's.   It will be quicker if you know how to tune that chassis in.  That was my problem with the small block and the 3500 stall.

[65prostreet]

I think 383man has the recipe your looking for.

i AGREE!

[JD451]

What are the cam specs, i think you would be happy with the comp XE cams, they seem to work good, as piston choice goes, if you would have had the 88cc eddys, witch are open chambers, you could have bought the KB400 quench dome pistons, but you have the 84cc closed chamber, so your limited to a flat top piston. i would use the XE274 with that stall, i think the specs are 488/491-230/236@ 50 110 LSA, we had this cam in a 70 dart with a 9.5 comp 360 with 391s, 2800 stall, 3310 carb and it pulled like a monster in high gear. that dart ran 104 in the 1/4 with 205-75-14 radials out back, i had to feather it out of the hole so it wouldn't smoke the tires, and it still clicked off mid 13.s, i was very impressed with that cam.

[Michael Deakin]

With all due respect, my Eddy's have'nt been milled and my car clicked 12's off with no problems and would probably go at least low 12's with uncorked headers, slicks and some tuning. So why the close chamber heads needed

[demon666]

 How this, 1970 383, 750 Speed Demon full mechanical DP'er, Weiand TeamG single plane, ported 902 heads, cylinders zero deck with flat top pistions at 10 to 1 comp., M.P. 509" lift cam, Crane springs, Milodon windage tray, HV oil pump, M.P. ignition with orange box, Schumacher mounts and Tri-Y headers thru 2 1/2 exhaust and Dynomax mufflers, 727 with shift kit and 3000 stall converter, B+M quicksilver, 8 3/4" X 3.91 gears, pinion snubber and sub frame connecters.

 Now all I need is Traction cause these BF's are banana skins but they look good. 

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[moparteacher]

How much compression do you want?
Here is what I've figured using United Engines calculator.
84cc heads
KB400 pistons w/-6 cc dome w/1.908 compression height
Steel shim gasket @.015. They advertise .020 but mine measured .015
gasket bore of 4.4 in. est. maybe a little smaller, say 4.35 or so
Cylinder bore of 4.28
Deck clearance of .024 This is with no milling of the block. (1.69+3.358+1.908) - 9.98 deck = .024 in the hole. Although a little close to the head for some people (I like these numbers). .024+ .015 = .039 These pistons run tight to the cyl. wall. .003 - .0035. Thirty nine thousandths should be fine.
stroke of 3.38
=10.122 to 1 static
and with a .020 head gasket, 9.994 to 1 with forty-four thousandths between piston and head.

OR

84cc heads EDDY heads
flat top L2215F30 w/1.920 compression height. This piston runs tight also. Do not install this piston w/ .008 clearance. .001 to .003 should do.
gasket bore 4.40
cylinder bore of 4.28
Deck clearance of .012 This is with no milling of the block. (1.69 crank throw+6.358 rod lenth+1.920 compression height) - 9.980 Deck = .012 in the hole. This gives (.012+.015) = .027 piston to head clearance.
stroke of 3.38
= 9.802 to 1 static
This combo will work with the .509 cam (which is too big) so it should work with smaller grinds. no need for notches unless your milling or going with a longer duration or tighter LSA.

OR

84cc EDDYs
KB162 pistons w/ nothes you lose 5cc. 1.908 ch.
steel shim (.015) gasket bore of 4.4
stroke 3.38
rod 6.358
bore 4.28 (larger the bore, higher the comression with same head, gasket and stroke)
compression ratio of 9.102 to 1 static

Personally, (Budget considering) I'd go with the KB400s or TRW's, steel shim and probably a hughes hydraulic or custom solid with a wider LSA ( 112 to 115) for driveability. RPM or Indy manifold for low block. and the EDDYs.

Just my 3 cents. good luck.
WOOOOOOOOPS. Edelbrock says to use the .039 felpro! Damn-it! all this typing and I made a BOO BOO. Ho well. The Edelbrocks might work with steel shim head gaskets. I don no. anybody..........anybody?

nevermine.

[Steve DeTar]

If you use a steel head gasket on a aluminum head it will corrode.  Dissimiliar metals don't like each other, it's called Galvanic Corrosion. 

[moparteacher]

OK...OK...OK
I've got another crazy combo!
Use a silvolite #1263 for a std. bore 440
Bore the 383 .070 over
With a compression height of 1.969 that's .037 out of the hole and use a fel-pro .039 head gasket and 88cc EDDYs  and you get 10.142 to 1.
a little crazy I know. But a cheap piston, good compression, tight cylinder wall clearance for good oil control. Out of the hole .037 with a head gasket of .039 is almost like a zero deck engine! The 68 to 70 383's came .021 out of the hole. Stop looking at me like I'm crazy. As long as a kinda small cam is run for piston to valve clearance, and the block is good for .070, and most are, your'e good to go. Plus if your existing block is already .040 or .060 over, what have you got to lose?

OR

Use a 400 block and sleeve down to a  4.32 bore. Yea, a little expensive but do-able.
OK. Time for my meds.

[moparteacher]

OR you could go with INDY 440EZ or 440 SR heads at 78cc and a TRW L2315F with .039 gasket and get 9.803 to 1. That's no additional machine work. Excellent heads, a little more expensive. The preferred head gasket for aluminum tops, and solid pistons that set .012 in the hole giving .052 quech. a bit big for me but do-able. Run them with .015 gaskets and get 10.426 to 1 with .028 to .032 quench. (a wee bit tight)

OR

run the INDY's with the KB162 cut pistons (valve relief) and a .015 gasket and get 9.716 to 1
run the .039 gasket and this piston and head combo and get 9.181 to 1

OR run the INDYs at 78cc, .039 gasket, KB400 piston and get 10.222 to 1 !!! NOW THAT"S A GOOD COMBO! except the .059 quench.
The money you save on the pistons will help pay for the heads. OR spend the money for custom pistons (about $600.) and get the eddys.

84cc eddys with .039 gasket and zero deck with 4.28 bore and no notches yields 9.506 to 1, but may as well shave the block with TRW's (.012) and use a .039 gasket and 84cc EDDY's for the 9.5 to 1
Hmmmmmmmm........... OK.. shave the block for zero with KB400's (.020), USE the 84cc EDDYs and .039 gasket and get 10.088 to 1
Hmmmm.... were's my pills?...

[my64dart]

Hi,
  I'm sorry if I confused anybody,but I didn't buy the Eddy heads yet. I'm going to be buying this stuff in the near future. I'm just trying to get all the right parts figured out. I don't know much about the 2 different type Eddy heads. I didn't think there would be that much difference between them. I'm glad I'm finding this stuff out now.  I guess the KB400 pistons & the 88CC open chamber Eddy heads are what I need to buy. This is why I'm asking for information so I don't screw up & get the wrong parts. This is my 1st Mopar motor & I want it to be put together the right way.
       Thanks Again For Your Input

[JD451]

Hi,
  I'm sorry if I confused anybody,but I didn't buy the Eddy heads yet. I'm going to be buying this stuff in the near future. I'm just trying to get all the right parts figured out. I don't know much about the 2 different type Eddy heads. I didn't think there would be that much difference between them. I'm glad I'm finding this stuff out now.  I guess the KB400 pistons & the 88CC open chamber Eddy heads are what I need to buy. This is why I'm asking for information so I don't screw up & get the wrong parts. This is my 1st Mopar motor & I want it to be put together the right way.
       Thanks Again For Your Input

Well thats good, i feel this will be your best way to go, with the KB400 pistons and 88cc eddy heads, you can get the compression comfortably in the 10s and have good quench also.

[my64dart]

Hi.
   I want the compression ratio at about 10 to 1  (pump gas)  I'm leaning towards the 3:90 gears.  The stall speed will be around 2800 or so.   I'm undecided on the camshaft right now. For the money I think the Edelbrock heads are the best choice to use. I want to keep a real simple motor build with no fancy stuff like dual carbs or nitrous oxide. And last of all 12's in the quarter mile would be great. This is kinda what I'd like the car to end up with.

[az426hemi]

My64Dart

Hello, what car are you putting together?

Thanks,
Mike

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[my64dart]

Hi Mike,
    Its a 1964 Dart. I picked up a 383 motor & I'm trying to gather up as much information as possible for the rebuild. It looks like all I needed to buy was the bare block & main caps, because everything else seems to be getting replaced. I needed idea's about cam selection & compressiom ratio & what pistons will work with the Eddy heads. I got a pretty good idea now from all the reply's I've gotten. I'll be 99% on the street cruising around.
     Thank
     Jim K

[az426hemi]

Hey Jim, I am putting a 400 into my 63 dart.  I will begin mocking it up in about 3 weeks.

Good luck,
Mike

[my64dart]

Hi Mike,
    A big block in a light car is going to be fun to drive. I'm beating my brains out trying to come up with a decent exhaust system that won't cost a fortune. Those custom made headers can cost quite a bit of money. What are you going to use? Any idea's?
     Thanks
     Jim K

[az426hemi]

Hey Jim, I ran across a guy on the web that says he has built 6 big block early a bodies using both 383 and 440 engines.  He used Max Wedge manifolds on all of them.  He currently has a car that is 440 powered and he has invited me down to Tucson where he lives to check it out. I live in Phoenxi which is around 120 miles away.  I am going to check his car out in about a month.  I plan on mocking my car up in about 3 weeks.  I have a set of the Max Wedge manifolds and I will post with pics how they fit.

I have used the 67 to 70 magnum b body manifolds before and they will work.  This is the least expensive exhaust to use. 

I plan on using a 4 speed with a Dana.  I can't wait.

Mike