Numbers matching questions

[440WIP]

I cannot for the life of me understand what "numbers matching" means. What numbers are supposed to match to what. Is it date codes, serial numbers, VIN, portions of serial numbers, part numbers, casting numbers, the engine matches the tranny, the carb matches the exhaust manifold, only part of the VIN is used some of the times, the VIN matches the fender tag or what? If somebdy could give me some very specific examples I would really appreciate it.
(e.g the last 8 digits on the VIN must be on the transmission and the engine block. They are located on the exterior edge of the chrome muffler bearings and can also be found on the inside of the 5.25 amp backlash auxilary waterpump fuse.) Just kidding.
   But seriously, I see numbers all the time and I have yet to see any that bear any similarity to each other. I can grasp the concept of date coded correct pieces, but not how any given piece relates to the VIN on the vehicle. What am I missing.
Daryl

[west]

you are right about some numbers matching vins and some don't,the factories did not have very strict standards that were always cut and dry,but the term is used more often than not to reflect the fact that the car still retains the original engine and trans.people will use this term somewhat loosely without even looking for the numbers,i see it all the time.

[NYrr496]

Who cares what numbers matching means? Anyone can restore a car. It takes a real man to cut one up.

[440dstr]

Who cares what numbers matching means? Anyone can restore a car. It takes a real man to cut one up. anen

[oldkimmer]

Well lets take an example.......1969 charger #s matching $100,000...........non#s $50,000......cut up $25,000..NOW that I got your attention.. not too long ago it was that way....now with all the cars being crushed and the parts pipeline drying up prices have become a lot closer, as people are only starting to realize now that they may never be able to pay the astronomical $ for #s matching and that it is not as important as it used to be ,but the #s matching will ALWAYS be worth more, EVEN THOUGH the hi dollar 1s will be for show only...............KIM........

[fasttcars]

ya it's strickly about the antique value of the car....just like any antique furniture..or what not....the closer to how it was in the day and original equipment it had obviously the more it will be worth..also the more all the other car's are getting cut up etc[i do it to]...the more valuable the original car's will be.....of course for us normal guys these are also more for museum etc...and really should not be driven..unless you can aford to[especially if it gets hit.....etc

[440WIP]

So.......4 out of 5 people who replied so far don't know the answer - or what? I don't care if it should be saved, or cut up, or revered for life how much its worth or anything else. To each their own. I just want to understand what it means - does anybody know. What does numbers matching mean, how is it figured out/applied etc. I keep reading about it, and hearing the phrase bandied about, and I don't understand exactly what it means - thats all, just a couple of simple questions.
Daryl

[eldubb440]

  with west; it is used somewhat loosly, but usually refers to the drivetrain as being original to the car. it simply means that all the parts that can be identified as original to the car by the VIN or the sequence number on the fender tag are there. 69 and later have the VIN on the fender tag. these numbers are also tied together by the build sheet. many other parts have  dates cast into them and would obviously have to preceed or be very close to the build date of the car. build dates were "scheduled" build dates and it is possible for some parts to be cast to be a few days later.

[69_440_GTS]

Daryl,This is how I understand it.The major components engine and trans have the last 8 of the VIN stamped into them.The other components,Carb,water pump, ign dist,alt,intake/exhaust manifolds and such,have casting or assy dates on them.These parts should fall within a window that is approx 3-4 months prior to the build date of the car.This would then be considered a complete #'s matching car.Now you could swap a carb with a different one and as long as its the same # as the one you took off and falls within the window of the build date it would still be considered #'s matching,as you would not be able to prove that it wasn't the original one.Hope that this answered your question. John.

[jwmotors]

Daryl , the trans and the engine block have the last 8 of the vin stamped on them . it's been a long time since i have looked but seems like the torqueflites the # is on the side of the pan rail by the shift lever and big blocks are along the oil pan rail i don't remember which side and seems like small blocks were on the lower left front of the block but its been 20 yrs . Check it out i hope this helps.

[NYrr496]

Everyone explained it. A car with all of it's original parts is numbers matching. If someone restored it and went to great lengths to get the correct date coded block, trans, carb, etc..., that car would be numbers matching.  If someone puts a 77 440 in a 69 roadrunner, that car isn't numbers matching. It even boils down to what month the car was built and the parts were cast. My 69 Charger was my father's since brand new and it was turned over to me at 17 years old in 100% original form. I learned a lot purchasing parts for that car. It was built in LATE 1968 and had a lot of crossover parts on it.

[fasttcars]

So.......4 out of 5 people who replied so far don't know the answer - or what? I don't care if it should be saved, or cut up, or revered for life how much its worth or anything else. To each their own. I just want to understand what it means - does anybody know. What does numbers matching mean, how is it figured out/applied etc. I keep reading about it, and hearing the phrase bandied about, and I don't understand exactly what it means - thats all, just a couple of simple questions.
Daryl

don't get you panties in a bunch...

[b569rr]

Sequence number from the vin didn't show up on blocks until '69.

[eldubb440]

Sequence number from the vin didn't show up on blocks until '69.

my 68 R/T built 8/67 has the last 5  or 6 digits of the VIN on the block where it meets the trans.....the sequense number on the fender tag matches the body......my 68 GTX block built 10/67 doesnt. go figure 

[74swinger]

If it is a real numbers matching car then ALL (not some) of the last six digits of the VIN tag number are IDENTICAL in all manners (including date of manufacture for each part).  That is, the last six digits of the VIN on the fender tag match the last 6 on the VIN on the dash, that match the six on the rad support, that match the six on the engine block, that match the six on the tranny, that match the six on the rear bumper rail .......... and so on and so on..................it is not easy (but no difficult) to make car numbers matching, so your homework is key.

By the way, no car is worth the selling price, only what you are buyer will pay for it.     If you want the car in front of you and you can afford it and you are sure you are not being ripped off, what's the problem?

By the way, the factory never built it right the first time (68 Dart Hemi the only exception in my mind).................

[eldubb440]

If it is a real numbers matching car then ALL (not some) of the last six digits of the VIN tag number are IDENTICAL in all manners (including date of manufacture for each part).  That is, the last six digits of the VIN on the fender tag match the last 6 on the VIN on the dash,

only 69 and up........68 and down does not have the VIN on the fender tag, just the "order" or "sequence" number. however, both numbers appear on the build sheet.

[fasttcars]

By the way, the factory never built it right the first time (68 Dart Hemi the only exception in my mind).................

and the factory didn't even really build the hemi dart..

[A13Dart]

The vin sequence numbers on the block and trans matching the vin plate are what most people care about. My road runners have sequence numbers on the rad core supports too. I would take numbers matching a step further, like the options on the build sheet and fender tag should match what is on the car.