hot rod a 273!!!

[kayle]

k did some research and the 440 would be waaaaaay to invasive  as opposed to the #s matching 273 that i pulled. i know im a wus dont wanna cut the fenderwells. gotta get that 273 to my machinist and get'r started. f that 318 in it now its a pig. plus the 273 used to scream bone stock.
i have smoked 60s moosetangs, 70s cameros, and a bunch o imports. the 318 in it now couldnt beat my grandmas camry.

off to the net find parts!!!!

[IL.DART340- 4SP]

I have a real underdog.66 318 Poly was stock with 2 bbl 265 hp from factory now Rebuilt .60 over/ Chris Nielson292 hp solid lift cam You may or may not recognize his name did the Rodney Dangerfield build in MCG MAG.on the 318 poly that made over 400 + hpThank you Chris he supplied me with the cam/.60over pistons/rings/lifters/and push rods. /.10-.10 on crank for rods and mains /new lifters/ push rods/valve job/ speed pro dual valve relief flat top pistons 9-1 comp/ hasting moly rings / hv oil pump/cast iron 4bbl intake/ eddy 600 cfm carb/Dual exhaust/2:76 sure grip. So Hp should be about 305-315 no race car by any means but good gas mileage reliable and dependable.Thats what I wanted for this street only motor.Could of got bigger cam but did not want headers.I love the old small blocks from that era.

[flyboy01]

Forget the 273, you can build a 318 to hit 400 streetable HP, its been done before! If you do a BB, even better. Although I would choose a 383 or 400, 440's leave you with limited header options, the B engine are a little easier IMHO.

[nothingbutdarts]

I have a real underdog.66 318 Poly was stock with 2 bbl 265 hp from factory now Rebuilt .60 over/ Chris Nielson292 hp solid lift cam You may or may not recognize his name did the Rodney Dangerfield build in MCG MAG.on the 318 poly that made over 400 + hpThank you Chris he supplied me with the cam/.60over pistons/rings/lifters/and push rods. /.10-.10 on crank for rods and mains /new lifters/ push rods/valve job/ speed pro dual valve relief flat top pistons 9-1 comp/ hasting moly rings / hv oil pump/cast iron 4bbl intake/ eddy 600 cfm carb/Dual exhaust/2:76 sure grip. So Hp should be about 305-315 no race car by any means but good gas mileage reliable and dependable.Thats what I wanted for this street only motor.Could of got bigger cam but did not want headers.I love the old small blocks from that era.

How about a picture of the whole car!!!!   The engine bay looks very nice.

[oldkimmer]

................My old D dart used to kick alot of big block ass............kim..............

[64dartsb]

I would run a 273 in my dart but definately not to race.  You need to think about engines, like really.  Given the same parts the 318 is faster.  That 273 is going to be slow.  It's your choice and your the one building the car and whatever makes you happy is what's best but Don't be mad when you build the crap out of that 273 and go to the track and get beat by my stock block 360 w/ 150 shot of nitrous.  The 273 would be fun but I don't really think it's a good canidate for a lot of time or effort.  Good luck though.

About the whole pop the hood, see a 273 and freak out thing,  I don't think it happens that much and small blocks all look the same just put a 273 commando sticker on the 360's air cleaner and don't let them get under it to look at the block.  Done deal.

p.s.   I have an extra 360 on the stand in my garage  it's been balanced, decked, honed, trw forged pistons, new rings, new bearings, clean, assembled, just needs an oil pump and your ready to go.  I'm in san diego if you want it offer me a price maybe we can work something out.  I'm not really trying to sell it but if you need it I'll let it go. 

[Womanator]

   Don't even think about putting a big block in your car.Headers would be custom and expensive.My wifes dad built her a 64 Valiant 360 with a 6 pack and X heads you get the picture ran low 12's and her sole means of transportation for 2-3 years with the push button tranny.Cool car.

[IL.DART340- 4SP]

I have a real underdog.66 318 Poly was stock with 2 bbl 265 hp from factory now Rebuilt .60 over/ Chris Nielson292 hp solid lift cam You may or may not recognize his name did the Rodney Dangerfield build in MCG MAG.on the 318 poly that made over 400 + hpThank you Chris he supplied me with the cam/.60over pistons/rings/lifters/and push rods. /.10-.10 on crank for rods and mains /new lifters/ push rods/valve job/ speed pro dual valve relief flat top pistons 9-1 comp/ hasting moly rings / hv oil pump/cast iron 4bbl intake/ eddy 600 cfm carb/Dual exhaust/2:76 sure grip. So Hp should be about 305-315 no race car by any means but good gas mileage reliable and dependable.Thats what I wanted for this street only motor.Could of got bigger cam but did not want headers.I love the old small blocks from that era.

 How about a picture of the whole car!!!!   The engine bay looks very nice.

[speedymopars]

OK, now I want to know what the license plate means - you a pilot?

[kayle]

I would run a 273 in my dart but definately not to race.  You need to think about engines, like really.  Given the same parts the 318 is faster.  That 273 is going to be slow.  It's your choice and your the one building the car and whatever makes you happy is what's best but Don't be mad when you build the crap out of that 273 and go to the track and get beat by my stock block 360 w/ 150 shot of nitrous.  The 273 would be fun but I don't really think it's a good canidate for a lot of time or effort.  Good luck though.

About the whole pop the hood, see a 273 and freak out thing,  I don't think it happens that much and small blocks all look the same just put a 273 commando sticker on the 360's air cleaner and don't let them get under it to look at the block.  Done deal.

p.s.   I have an extra 360 on the stand in my garage  it's been balanced, decked, honed, trw forged pistons, new rings, new bearings, clean, assembled, just needs an oil pump and your ready to go.  I'm in san diego if you want it offer me a price maybe we can work something out.  I'm not really trying to sell it but if you need it I'll let it go. 

the appealing thing about the 273 is that it is in of itself a torque motor, but let me say this i have NO intention of ever taking it to a track and im kinda anti nitro.
the great thing my machinist understands about me is that i love old school builds. basic yet still has guts ya know?
i wish i could find aftermarker parts for it from the 60's that would be so cool.
nother thing is i wouldnt mind getting beat by a bigger ci mopar, thats fine i wanna prove that the lil 273 can be just as fun as a 350 or 353.
as far as you 360 is concerned its really tempting but i doubt i could afford that lolol!!!!
CHEERS!!!!

[Mopar Tom]

Kayle , ,,I know I've given you my 2cents earlier in this thread but can't help but go back to it !!!! It's very interesting to read what everybody else has to say !!! As you well know "opinions are like assholes---hopefully you have one?!"
I know exactly how you feel about still wanting to do the 273 even though everybody & their Grandmas have told you otherwise ,,,,,! I've been entertaining the same idea for over 12yrs with my 65 Coronet .
All of us don't have the luxury of having room for an extra motor layin around ! Some of us have assinine neighbor's that would freak if we put em ouside !!!! Plus the more people tell you what you should do the harder you dig in !!!!
In reality the only thing that "REALLY" matters is you have the motor in there YOU are happy with ,,,,whether it's a 543 or a /6 !!!!!
Like I said ,,I've been thinkin about & pickin lotsa peoples brain for over 12 yrs. --the vast majority  say "don't waste yer money, fool !" and I say "don't tell the old hippie he can't cross the road  cause he'll kill himself proving you wrong !"
O.K. enuff philosophy-----My ultimate 273 " Budget" street motor------------the cast stroker crank with ported 318 swirl port heads for a 330 somethin tiny torquer . I 'd be willin to bet the  braintrust could tell you exactly how to do it !!!!!!                       more food for thought ----Mopar Tom 

[nothingbutdarts]

I have a real underdog.66 318 Poly was stock with 2 bbl 265 hp from factory now Rebuilt .60 over/ Chris Nielson292 hp solid lift cam You may or may not recognize his name did the Rodney Dangerfield build in MCG MAG.on the 318 poly that made over 400 + hpThank you Chris he supplied me with the cam/.60over pistons/rings/lifters/and push rods. /.10-.10 on crank for rods and mains /new lifters/ push rods/valve job/ speed pro dual valve relief flat top pistons 9-1 comp/ hasting moly rings / hv oil pump/cast iron 4bbl intake/ eddy 600 cfm carb/Dual exhaust/2:76 sure grip. So Hp should be about 305-315 no race car by any means but good gas mileage reliable and dependable.Thats what I wanted for this street only motor.Could of got bigger cam but did not want headers.I love the old small blocks from that era.

 How about a picture of the whole car!!!!   The engine bay looks very nice.

 I hope you still have that beautiful Charger! I love that 66 - 67 body style!

[64dartsb]

I'll let that 360 go for $500 it's not really a big deal to me anyways.    I have some stock 360 small valve heads I'll let go with it too.  Actually I'll even give you rocker shafts, rocker arms, and pushrods for that price.  My next engine is going to be a 408 stroker most likely anyways, so it's ok.  The pistons and rings where only like $150 on e bay all of the money really went into the machine work to the block and the balancing.  I bet you'll spend more than 500 on that 273...

As far as the 273 being a torque engine.....   Ummmm  I've never owned one but one of the prime reasons torque engines are torquey is because of displacement.  It's not magical.  The 360 would hands down be more torquey.  I like the sound of the whole period correct thing.  Sounds cool and I bet it will be a cool car, and the 273 will help with gas mileage.  But as far as HOT ROD like the post is titled  ummmm  The 360 would be better suited.

It's your car though.  Build it how you want to, you'll be the one driving it.  Good luck.  Just trying to help a brotha out!

-64dartsb

[IL.DART340- 4SP]

OK, now I want to know what the license plate means - you a pilot?

I need a new one .I ordered HEAVY 66 and this is what the state sent me? They said someone already has that plate!So this was close WTF close it sucks.I would be rich if I had a dollar for every time someone ask that question.

[IL.DART340- 4SP]

 I hope you still have that beautiful Charger! I love that 66 - 67 body style

Yes I do.It seems to be a love me hate me car?

[MVRCorp]

Hey Kayle, I got this e-mail from a good friend in Fl today.............thought I'd pass it along for you and every one else.

Hey Fool, Get this,

I just left A.P.E. (Auto Performance Engines) in Auburndale. Those are people who did my engine and who does all the motors for Mopar Muscle Magazine articles.

They were running a 1966 273-CI motor on their new Dyno.

What a little ripper!

They went 60 over on the bore using 10.5 to 1 compression to keep it well within pump gas range.
He did some excellent port and bowl blending on the original steel heads (I saw Pictures)  as well as matched the intake ports to the single plane edelbrock aluminum intake. He also went to a bigger valve dia but I don't remember what they went to in size or valve length.

They lined bored the crank, squared the front and rear end of the block and the top & bottom to the center of the crank and re bushed the lifter bores which he said some of the bore centers of the original bore were more than 2 1/2 degrees timing-out of Cam lobe max height from where they should be. He said that was normal and acceptable for all mopar castings back in that time era but really hurt the engines basic performance let alone the fuel economy.

They used the new comp Cam Hydraulic Roller "Thumper" cam with the Comp cam true roller rocker lifters and light weight comp push rods.

A new complete bolt set from inside to out was ARP bolts.

This thing had one hell of a lopy idle sound signature. I really have never heard a small block sound meaner at idle. And It cranked out 356 horsepower @ 6240 RPM using a 550 CFM Holley Four BBL carb.
Later.
Bob

I called Bob and asked for the parts list and supplier for the internal parts. I'll let you know when I get them.
Jim

[GT_convert.]

the 273 Hi-Po was my first "nice" car. In a '65 Dart GT with 4 spd.
After about 150K miles on it, I pulled it and put in a tweaked 340 from a '68 Dart. After 100k miles on that moter, out it came and in went the original 273 with a AirResearch TO4 turbo. Put 10psi boost to that little motor and it was a stone cold sleeper...and bullet-proof!!   
I still have one out in the "pile" and all this talk makes me want to try it again!!

[kayle]

Hey Kayle, I got this e-mail from a good friend in Fl today.............thought I'd pass it along for you and every one else.

Hey Fool, Get this,

I just left A.P.E. (Auto Performance Engines) in Auburndale. Those are people who did my engine and who does all the motors for Mopar Muscle Magazine articles.

They were running a 1966 273-CI motor on their new Dyno.

What a little ripper!

They went 60 over on the bore using 10.5 to 1 compression to keep it well within pump gas range.
He did some excellent port and bowl blending on the original steel heads (I saw Pictures)  as well as matched the intake ports to the single plane edelbrock aluminum intake. He also went to a bigger valve dia but I don't remember what they went to in size or valve length.

They lined bored the crank, squared the front and rear end of the block and the top & bottom to the center of the crank and re bushed the lifter bores which he said some of the bore centers of the original bore were more than 2 1/2 degrees timing-out of Cam lobe max height from where they should be. He said that was normal and acceptable for all mopar castings back in that time era but really hurt the engines basic performance let alone the fuel economy.

They used the new comp Cam Hydraulic Roller "Thumper" cam with the Comp cam true roller rocker lifters and light weight comp push rods.

A new complete bolt set from inside to out was ARP bolts.

This thing had one hell of a lopy idle sound signature. I really have never heard a small block sound meaner at idle. And It cranked out 356 horsepower @ 6240 RPM using a 550 CFM Holley Four BBL carb.
Later.
Bob

I called Bob and asked for the parts list and supplier for the internal parts. I'll let you know when I get them.
Jim

good god........
il be posting a pic in the next few days of this block that scares the hell out of me 

[Mopar Tom]

There ya go, Kayle, and just think ,,,they didn't even stroke it !!!!!---------- --Mopar Tom

[kayle]

I'll let that 360 go for $500 it's not really a big deal to me anyways.    I have some stock 360 small valve heads I'll let go with it too.  Actually I'll even give you rocker shafts, rocker arms, and pushrods for that price.  My next engine is going to be a 408 stroker most likely anyways, so it's ok.  The pistons and rings where only like $150 on e bay all of the money really went into the machine work to the block and the balancing.  I bet you'll spend more than 500 on that 273...

As far as the 273 being a torque engine.....   Ummmm  I've never owned one but one of the prime reasons torque engines are torquey is because of displacement.  It's not magical.  The 360 would hands down be more torquey.  I like the sound of the whole period correct thing.  Sounds cool and I bet it will be a cool car, and the 273 will help with gas mileage.  But as far as HOT ROD like the post is titled  ummmm  The 360 would be better suited.

It's your car though.  Build it how you want to, you'll be the one driving it.  Good luck.  Just trying to help a brotha out!

-64dartsb

hey sent you a message im interested hit me up!

[moparteacher]

Kayle, the first rule of hot rodding is "Don't bite off more than you can chew". With that said build the 273, put it in and enjoy your 66. As far as the tranny is concerned, if you don't rebuild them for living then let someone else do it. It's a simple transmission and inexpensive to build. Most tranny shops should knock it out for about $800 including parts (less than $100).

If you go 360 you'll be replacing many other parts like brakes, rear end, special motor mount for the drivers side, upgraded exhaust, tires and wheels etc. etc. etc.

Keep it simple. Keep it cheap. Keep it reliable. Get it done and drive it.

good luck

[Dart67]

Kayle,

Go for it.

I have owned my 1967 Dart 270, 273 Charger 4bbl,  235 hp () , 4 speed, 3.91 8 3/4" suregrip since I drove it home from the dealer on May 3,1967.

Over that period of time, it has blew the doors off of more early mustangs, camaros and chevelles than I can count with the engine in both stock and modified form.

I have not changed anything engine wise since the mid 80's.

The engine is still stock bore and stroke.

Most of the work on the engine follows the old MOPAR/Direct Connection performance guidelines.

I am running 340 "X" heads. Each cylinder of the block has to have a crescent shaped area filed into it on the intake side that is slightly larger than the valve diameter back to the edge of the headgasket bead and down into the cylinder to just above the upper travel limit of the top ring. I spent HOURS doing this and checking clearances.

I am running an old Racer Brown ST21 solid lifter cam and stock 273 adjustable rocker gear. Every once and a while I will bend or break a stock pushrod. "Kind of Rusty at shifting the 4 gear" I think the cam has a duration of around 296* and a lift of .520".

I made my own fly cutters from welded up and ground down 3/8" allen wrenches and my own positioning fixture to cut valve relief's in the stock high dome 10.5 factory pistons. Then used a digital proportion scale from the cafeteria at work to weight match all 8 of the pistons.

Stock rods that have been "deburred and polished"

Stock steel crank.

Stock Bearings. You could not get 3/4 or full groove main bearings back then so the machine shop grooved them for me.

I use either a stock 340 4bbl manifold or an old Edelbrock Tarantula with an 850 double pump Holley.

340 bellhousing, flywheel, and clutch assm.

BlackJack Ceramic coat headers

This little motor SCREAMS.

Most people think it is a bigblock by the way it sounds and runs.


Yea, it's a "little motor" BUT not everyone has one and it sure is FUN to "F" with peoples minds when they see the 273 4 barrel flags on the front fender.


Again, I say Go For It, Do It Your Way.


Herb