Stronger than Cryptonite?

[Mopartist]

Being a novice welder; I attempted to weld in my leaf spring relocation boxes.....twice. But I still don't trust that they are as strong as they should be. After going to the drags this last weekend; and yet again witnessing the incredible torque these will have to hold up under; I just don't feel comfortable with the welds I did. My goal is to get my car eventually into the 10 second range. Is there yet another way to insure the welds are strong? The frame material is like tin foil compared to the beefy Mopar boxes. Would it be stronger if I welded flat metal over the welds on the "flush" outside of the frame rail ? And angle iron to the joint where the box extends out on the inside?

[dartracer]

Why did you grind the welds? Other than that looks ok to me. You could run another beed around it and call it good.

[Mopartist]

I ground them to make sure I couldn't see daylight through them.  Being new at welding; I wasn't sure if I had enough penetration.

[68_Val_Sedan]

Why did you grind the welds? Other than that looks ok to me. You could run another beed around it and call it good.

 

run one more wide bead and call it good ....

[moparrr07]

 

[daves66valiant]

I feel your pain. I'm getting better though. I need to relocate my spring perches and I'm a little nervous about my welds as well. I grind my welds down because I'm embarassed to look at them.  

[DartKnight]

I grind my welds down because I'm embarassed to look at them.  

I do the same thing. My buddy (who's a MUCH better welder) gives me shit for it all the time.    I don't trust myself enough to do any suspension or frame welds yet...

[birdboy]

mopar were do you live i will put it on the host and weld them for you. tig or mig

[71 swinger]

Clean your weld area really good before welding and then wire wheel them after not grind. Remember a good penetrated weld will not always look pretty.

[jacks62440]

I am No Pro for Sure. What I would do for your own piece of mind is weld a plate 1/2'-3/4" wider , the same thickness . Like a bandaid. Or better yet Box it in . I would be doing a lot of Practise welds and Try to Break the weld when you are finished. That Will Give You Confidence in your Work   

[abqdart]

I'm not a pro but it looks like a couple of the welds appear to have been done at too low a setting, resulting in what I have been told is a "cold weld" I had to re-do my box's because of it. I have been welding on a semi-regular basis now for about a year and a half ( yeah a whole 1.5 years ) and now I feel comfortable doing that stuff. I have a Lincoln 3200 HD. When I am doing sheetmetel work I use the gas and either .25 or .30 wire depending on thickness of the metal. When I am doing thick stuff, say 10 gauge or thicker I will run the .35 Flux core wire. If you practice enough you will have almost no spatter with the flux core wire. You still have to clean the welds off real good but after they look like a row of nickels.  Use a wire wheel on a drill and make sure the weld area is clean of ALL crap. Before I weld anything , after I have flap wheeled it or sanded wire wheel or anything, I wipe it clean with Acetone. I also make sure my ground point is somewhat close to my work. Stay away from magnets to hold parts together, use somesort of clamp/visegrip.If you are welding two different thickness metals together, concentrat the heat on the thicker metal and pull the pool into the smaller metal.

[b569rr]

1. Before attenmpting any welding make sure the fit is as perfect as possible. Example; A zero gap tig weld on pipe can be made with zero filler rod, fusion is all it takes. Add some gaps in there and you have doubled the difficulty and time it takes.

2. Make absolutely sure that the surface is clean. Forget the drill. Get a 4.5" x 5/8 arbor" wire wheel "known as a stringer bead" for your 4.5" angle grinder. Now dig it in and brush it real good with that wheel. that will take anything off that will give you trouble. ALWAYS WEAR SAFETY GLASSES. I watched a guy get a wire in his eye and it drained like an egg. If you need a pick let me know. They are available at any weld supply store and maybe Home Depot.

3. Although a "band - aid" sounds like it will work and is a great idea on a cracked frame, the weld shrinkage from the bandaid will place stress on the original welds of the boxes.

4. Move the weld puddle in a non jerky fashion. Move forward and don't just drag the puddle on structural welds. A little side to side action is desirable.

   a. Up an up and down structural weld I prefer running "uphill". Point the gun up approx 20 degrees. Start at the bottom and move to one side.  Drag to the other side and hold. Now drag back to the other side and hold. When you drag the puddle from one side to the other you are tying in the sides. The hesitation at the sides ensures that you are tying in the parent metal. A cycle from one side to the other should take you about 1 second. The uphill bead should be approx 3/16" wide. The lateral movement is accomlished by mnoving your wrist from side to side. Try it.

   b. For hoizontal welds pont the gun approx 20 degrees back against direction of travel and 20 degrees up. Now move the puddle in the same manner stated above pausing on the top and on the bottom. Time spent in the middle of the puddle is just time spent getting from one side to the other. When you get better you will actually pause at the top a little longer than the bottom.

   3. For filling large areas like tying the spring box into the existing spring hanger support it is desirable to run a few stringers. this is the uphill area. Lay one bead directly in the ceter of the "V". Now place two stringers over that. One thing I notice from your vertical welds is that there is no overlap. When running multiple stringer beads you want to overlap them 25% - 50%.

   4. I ran 3 stringers on the horizontal welds of my boxes. First one goes in the "V". This is called the root pass. Now think of gravity. Run the 2nd at the base or bottom of the root pass. You should have overlap into the bottom of the root pass. For the 3rd pass, place it on top of the 2nd pass with some overlap. The 3rd pass should have completely hidden the root pass.

   5  I would grind it out and try it again. It is only steel and I know you can do it. Do you have a  machine capable of 130 amp?

I'll go out and run some stringers and post pics in an hour.

for Tig I am out of rod and my wife doesn't have any wire hangers.

[abqdart]

 

[b569rr]

The following per PM request.


Welder's friend. A good welder doesn't need a grinder.


Horizontal T fillet. The top is a little wavey. It's the pot of coffee (Sumatra).
You can see the different passes.

FYI my 180 Miller is set on 3 for heat and 4 for speed.

Going back to the shop for the uphill. Stay tuned.

Tom

[b569rr]

Uphill



Turn the heat down a little when going uphill because due to the puddle moving slower the parent metal absorbs more heat therefore not as much input is required.

My 180 mig is set on 2.5 for heat and 4 for speed.



You think you have it tough, this is what the old timers used. We have a few of those on . This is what I first learned on. Now I have to get in the yard. Good Luck

Nice sign too eh? I got it for my neighbor and his dog in my yard. The wife wanted me to take it down. 

Tom

[73swinger]

I've done alot of fabrication with a MIG welder and alot of people seem to make the same mistakes. On thick metal I push the weld to almost force the filler into the base metal and give it as much heat as it can handle without blowing through. On thinner stuff like sheetmetal I'll drag the weld, results in a lumpy lookin mess but penetration is alot less and won't blow through.

I can pretty much tell you that b599rr is pushing the weld in those pics, with a MIG you don't need to worry about porosity or slag inclusion unless you're using flux-crap....absolute junk IMHO. On a vertical weld I run downhand and point the nozzle upwards with a little weave...works slick

[Mopartist]

Thanks guys! Hey; I was wondering about the dilemma of welding two different thicknesses together (As with the spring boxes) I keep having "burn through" problems on the thin frame metal. It's like tin foil. I get the feeling that with the MIG turned way down to keep from burning through; my welds on the thick "box" side is only surface deep.
Wow Tom; your welds look like artwork! Awesome dude!

[b569rr]

When you wash the box in with the existing frame, keep most of the heat on the new box and just tie in the sub frame.

A agree with '73. Those I push on heavy gausge and drag on sheet metal. I'm still new to sheet metal. My welding experience is commercial structural steel and pressure pipe. The only time we mig is spray and pulse in the Fab shop. Other than that is is Electrodes and Tig.

[abqdart]

AWESOME WORK Tom.....I always love seeing your product. Gives me something to shoot for! thanks again. Just got done doing a frame repair on my car...started yeaterday and finished today.  Came out looking sharp. I talked to Mr. Bill last week and asked him what he thought about those Safe-t-cap's...he said I should do it myself and save $150, plus, I will probably be happier. He was right. I had a cherry picker holding the weight of the engine 8 jackstands and my floorjack 3 vise grip's 1 c-clamp and my welder. I cut out the rotted out metal, used POR-15 on the inside of the frame rail. boxed it in with 3/16 sprayed Zinc primer on the inside and then capped it. Once I fininshed welding the perimieter, POR-15 the entire piece. I looked real hard at the whole chassis and couldnt find anything else....now I am just wondering if I should do the other side cause of the MASSIVE wheel stands Im gonna do.....

[b569rr]

 Sounds like you had alot of fun. We need pics. Did the caps fit nice?


Ken: Just curious, what kind of hood are you using? I may have a suggestion if needed. If you were in Portlan I would come right down. But you are in B.F.E. Oregon.

[Mopartist]

It's a Huntsman with a #9 lens

[b569rr]

Have you tried a number 10 lense or is a 10 too dark for you?

[Mopartist]

Have you tried a number 10 lense or is a 10 too dark for you?

Yeah; I even have trouble seeing with the 9 lens. Maybe I should switch to TIG; I hear the arc isn't as bright, so you can get away with a lighter lens

[abqdart]

Tom :  I built my own using 10 gauge sheet. It cost me $11 for a piece 12 x 24 " I probably used 20' of wire to weld it in and 1 cut-off wheel to cut the old metal out. I will post pics as soon as I figure out how to adjust the pic.

Ken : I use a #10 when I am welding thick stuff due to the high amp's. If I am useing .025 or .030 and gas I use my Auto-tint hood.....