NEW Motor...problems (Any ideas?)

[DARTZILLA]

Hey people,
                      My bro just built a real nice 440 and dropped it in his '69 Valiant. He went to start it up this evening and it blew the oil filter right off. He thought maybe it was an old filter (New old stock), so he went and picked up a brand new one, more oil and tried it again. Same thing. Anybody have any ideas???

Thanks,

ERIK (DARTZILLA)

[67Dart383]

Are you putting correct oil filter on it?   

[DARTZILLA]

Yes... it's for a 440.

[moparteacher]

Either the oil is too thick or the pressure relief valve in the oil pump is stuck. Does it have the Milidon adjustable oil pressure relief valve and spring?

I had the same problem with my 431. Oil pressure was at 160psi at idle with 10w40. I blew a K&N filter apart in seconds. All was well after I adjusted the relief spring.

I used to be a tech at a Lincoln/mercury dealership. We worked on cop cars. They were Crown Vics with 4.6 liters. The police would send them over to use because of ballooned and blown oil filters. They were using the wrong weight of oil.

[DARTZILLA]

Had 80 psi when engine primed...before start-up. Seemed high.

Melling oil pump, 10w-30 Rotella-T oli,   FRAM PH8 filter

[guzzimike]

My 383 had 80 PSI engine primed before start up, too. I think you're OK there. Same with the Rotella 10W- 30..

MY suggestion..ditch the Fram PH8, get a WIX 51515.

[olof]

Like moparteacher said,make sure the relieve spring and valve isn´t stuck.I,m using Melling HV pump and had 80psi idle and over 100psi when touching the pedal.
(400 stroker)
I polished the relieve valve a little on the edges(I gues it was stuck) and now pressure is down to 40psi idling when warm.But still 80-90psi when idling cold.K&N filter.
Milodon adjustable seems to be a good setup!

[375InStroke]

FRAM PH8 filter

Well there's your problem.

[WarLocK451]

FRAM PH8 filter

Well there's your problem.

Fram=Junk

[illfish]

I took apart my Melling pump when it was new out of the box.  I wanted to blueprint the pump before running.  Even though it was new, the relief piston had a light coat of surface rust on it.  I polished it up and put a light machine oil on it.  Take it apart, it's probably the issue.

[jackie]

check relief valve  , but also do yourself a favor , get rid of the fram. ( wix 51515) good price and good filter..

[abqdart]

I wouldnt use a Fram on ANYTHING........

[440Demon]

Ok, I don't understand how it could blow
the filter off ?
Isn't it screwed on ?
Either the threads are stripped or you have the wrong size
filter or pump housing ?
Please explain.

[DARTZILLA]

Okay,
           Oil pump was taken apart... relief valve was corroded/rusted (Brand New too). Cleaned-up, re-assembled, and everything seem good, but?

Oil pressure seems HIGH. After start-up it runs high (92psi), and higher if you rev it up. After warming at Idle, around (80psi).

By the way... threads weren't stripped. Blew out the rubber seal and began to un-screw filter at high rate. (Twice now with 2 different filters).

So...whats all the fuss about the Fram filters. I'm unaware of any problems. Please fill me in.

Thanks!

ERIK

[NYrr496]

Fram SUCKS.

[guzzimike]

<snip>So...whats all the fuss about the Fram filters. I'm unaware of any problems. Please fill me in.

Thanks!

ERIK

Here ya go:

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

[nothingbutdarts]

The wix filter everyone is talking about also is available @ NAPA and CarQuest, both of the top of the line filters from Napa (Gold) filter and Carquest (85515)  they sell are made by Wix!    Just to let you know

[farmington]

If your oil pressure is too high, and it seems like it is, get a standard pressure from the dealer.  I believe that they are still available.  If not the milodon adjustable might be the hot ticket.

[moparteacher]

92 psi is still too high. 40 psi is more than sufficient. Anything over 50 is a waste of HP.

You should also be mindful of the problems associated with too much pressure.
#1. Puts an excessive amount of oil on the cylinder walls and leads to oil consumption and detonation.
#2. Excessive oil pressure will pit the main, cam, and rod bearings. The oil will wash out and flake off the babbit overlay.
#3. You are likely to break the oil pump drive.
#4. Puts an excessive load on the timing chain.
#5. Puts an excessive load on the cam/oil drive gear.
#6. May put excessive oil up top and may create oil starvation.
#7. May cause the world as we know it to callapse into a heaping pile of dung ending all life, except for cockroaches, and ................. well you know the rest.

[jess13]

Do you still have the old oil pump, if so just take the spring out of it & swap it with the one your running. Be sure and monitor its effects.


Jess

[west]

92 psi is still too high. 40 psi is more than sufficient. Anything over 50 is a waste of HP.

You should also be mindful of the problems associated with too much pressure.
#1. Puts an excessive amount of oil on the cylinder walls and leads to oil consumption and detonation.
#2. Excessive oil pressure will pit the main, cam, and rod bearings. The oil will wash out and flake off the babbit overlay.
#3. You are likely to break the oil pump drive.
#4. Puts an excessive load on the timing chain.
#5. Puts an excessive load on the cam/oil drive gear.
#6. May put excessive oil up top and may create oil starvation.
#7. May cause the world as we know it to callapse into a heaping pile of dung ending all life, except for cockroaches, and ................. well you know the rest.

i can confirm #2 i had an engine with too much oil pressure and thats exactly what happened

[DARTZILLA]

Okay, so... swapped the spring with an old used stock one and it still seems high (75psi after start at Idle, and upwards of 100psi when rev'd-up. Pretty much blew the first autometer guage on the first start-up, so this reading is with another guage.

Any suggestions???

Thanks,

ERIK (DartZilla)

[motorhead]

is this at running temp or cold

[DARTZILLA]

That would be shortly after starting the car.

is this at running temp or cold

[Freight Dog]

Moparteacher and Olof are correct about the oil pressure relief valve and what excessive oil pressure can do .
There are 2 (non-cleanable type) filter manufactures in the US and Wix is one. Wix makes filters for most everything including aircraft and heavy equipment engine oil systems and hydraulic systems. Most filters you buy off the shelf are Wix or the other.
If you have another pump, try it. What are the clearances on the crank including the thrust? If they are within tolerance, I would start looking for an obstruction in the pressure side. Use a drill and pre-oil shaft to turn the pump and note the force needed to hold the drill. Pull the rocker shafts and see what the flow is like out of the heads and note the force on the drill. Work your way down stream to the pump.

[Hemi GTS]

What main bearings are you running, 360 full groove, 1/2 groove, stock no groove?  This one wont blow, its a race unit from Mopar.
 
High-performance, heavy-duty Race Oil Filter has a thicker canister with high burst strength. Filter is black with Mopar Performance Pentastar logo.


P4529190 Race Oil Filter — Black Finish (426 Hemi®, Big Block, Small Block)

[67 dartgts]

My 440 (451) had very high oil pressure also.  I got the Milodon adjustable pressure valve, easy to install and adjust.  I did have to trim 2 coils off their spring to get the pressure to the point where it could be adjustable.  Now running 45 lbs using 25-50 Pennzoil racing oil and Wix filter.

  Maynard