T-56 6-speed discussion...my posts updated

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December 02, 2008, 12:35:29 AM

I cleaned up all my posts and made this as accurate as I can to this point. The following is how I am converting my car from an 18-spline A833 4-speed to a T-56 Viper 6-speed...

Getting the needle bearing set-up for a Dakota will work just fine for the pilot bearing. These are the type that tap into the convertor register in your crank flange. I was already using one due to having my 4-speed in the car.

The throwout bearing is easy enough as well. Just get a new Viper slave cylinder/throwout bearing set-up from your local Mopar dealer's parts counter, EBay, or a local part store and it will be good to go. Obviously they already bolt on to the Viper transmission. The assembly will work with a single disc clutch, or a dual disc clutch as well (older Vipers had singles and newer have dual discs). The same slave cylinder has enough throw to cover both applications. (the attached picture shows a '92-'04 set-up)

The inlet on the Viper slave/throwout set-up can be mated to a -3 AN line via this trick little number. The link says sold per, but they are in stock and come 2 in a pack.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=RUS%2D640281&N=700+4294842506+115&autoview=sku

I already had a hydraulic clutch master cylinder that I was using for my 18-spline so I left it in place. It's a Mcleod and is similar to the one in this picture. It bolts to my firewall in the stock clutch rod hole and the rod end bolts right to my clutch pedal.

I purchased the QuickTime RM-8073 big block Mopar to Viper T-56 bellhousing. I had to do a little massaging of the locating dowel holes in the QuickTime bell (they are just too close together to slip onto the transmission), but once I did the bell popped on and all the bolts threaded into the transmission by hand.

Prothane Polyurethane mount.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=PTP-7-1604-BL

I am using a Pro 5.0 shifter mechanism for an '03-'04 Cobra. The assembly bolts right in place of where the Viper mechanism did and my pistol grip bolts right to it.

My Stewart Warner speedo gauge reads like it will calibrate to the Vipers electric speedo sensor pickup on the tailstock so that saves a headache.

The transmission slip yoke for the Viper T-56 is the same one used on 727s and 18 or 23-spline Mopar 4-speed transmissions. If you are starting with one of these transmissions just have your existing driveshaft cut to length and use the same yoke.

* I have a Mcleod StreetTwin dual clutch disc set-up in my car so I had to switch from 18-spline discs to 26-spline discs. At over $160 a piece that is fun.

* One very important part for this conversion is the bellhousing. The QuickTime bell fits the mouth of the tunnel beautifuly. I did trim some of the pinch weld so I wouldn't end up having any contact/vibration later due to any slight interference. This bell keeps you from having to cut up the floor so much. It's small size makes using a Lakewood bellhousing a joke.

* I already had a 4-speed hump welded in my car so the driver's side floor has a ton of room.

* I had to cut the transmission crossmember (the crossmember that is welded to the floor from the factory) completely out starting at the 2 inside bolt holes where the tranny cross member/mount assembly bolts in. I left the outer 2 holes in place in case I wanted to make a new bolt in crossmember attaching to these holes.

* I had to make one dent from the bottom of the car to the passenger side floor pan to make room for an upper case "rib".

* I modified the T-56 by cutting 4 "tabs" off of the case...none of which are affecting the cases strength at all and it really let the transmission sit in the tunnel alot better.

* I will get some pictures of the transmission soon, and the tunnel from under my car as well.

* I have 4.10s in my Dana 60 with 26" tall MT SRs so cruising should be nice on long trips.

Rear End Ratio: 4.10
@ Desired MPH: 58
Tire Diameter (Height) in Inches: 26
Over Drive Ratio (1 for no OD): .50
RPM at Given MPH:

1537

Rear End Ratio: 4.10
@ Desired MPH: 70
Tire Diameter (Height) in Inches: 26
Over Drive Ratio (1 for no OD): .50
RPM at Given MPH:

1854

http://www.richmondgear.com/101032.html

More to come soon More to come soon More to come soon More to come soon More to come soon More to come soon More to come soon

-Michael

From what little I have read on aftermarket electric speedometers, it seems you can recalibrate most of them to work with the electronic speed sensor that comes with the T56. Some electric speedometers might need to have the signal from the speed sensor altered in order to work properly. In a few posts on the subject the Dakota Digital SGI-5 seems to be the most popular way to handle any signal mismatch that may arise.
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=126/category_id=287/home_id=59/mode=prod/prd126.htm

As far as the shifter handles go, they seem like the least of the problem. Where they attach to the shifter base they are basically just a piece of flat rectangular stock with two holes drilled in it. Judging by looks I would say the handles should be interchangeable between automakers but I doubt you will find a factory version that exactly fits your application. My T56 is most likely going into a Challenger so I will end up either modifying one of my old Pistol Grip shifters or just making one from scratch. Is there any particular shifter you plan to use? I can take some measurements of the mounting hole spacing if you need it.

Pat

Is your Pistol Grip handle the type that is bolted to the base or is it held in with clips?
I have a bolt in type for E-body and I compared the bolt pattern just a few moments ago. The bolts are a little larger in diameter and spaced closer together on the Tremec but not by much when compared to my Pistol Grip. To give you an idea how close, by using slightly smaller bolts I was able to mount the Pistol Grip onto the T56 base. I would wait until after installing the transmission before modifying the shifter handle in case the placement is off. If you are lucky enough to have the shifter end up in the right spot it looks like you would only need to enlarge the two holes in the shifter and slot one of them to make the bolt pattern match up.

Pat

Quote from: sycboi on October 10, 2007, 12:46:02 PM

Also, other than the difference in input shaft lengths on the various T-56 applications...wouldn't any T-56 bolt up to a bellhousing the same way? I can't really find anything on the bell to tranny case bolt patterns...
-Michael

I sent an email to Tremec about this issue (using a viper bellhousing with a ford or gm t56). Basically what he told me as I recall is that yes it will bolt right up, but you wont be able to use it because of the input shaft lenght (mopar drivers usually have bigger shafts Blah Blah Blah

). Why dont you just use the whole viper t56 set-up? Its not that much more expensive.

If you're going with a BB t56, you should ask MikeR. He used a viper t56 on his.

Fred

What about this site. http://www.rsgear.com/transzilla.asp
I looks like they'll build whatever you have if you already have a tranny. I think I saw this in a Car Craft mag. I'll look tomorrow. I think I remember it saying something about being able to get the tranny set up for rb/hemi.

Just went through my car records to find where I bought my t-56, I bought it in 2005 from Standard Transmission

http://www.standardtransmission.com/

for under $2300.00 including shipping. The part number on my invoice is tuet2062, Description: T-56 Viper, and it had a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty.

Hope this helps.

They also have lake wood bell housings now, they look like they've grown quite a bit.

i know a lot of poeple say to use 4.10 gears with a 6-speed, but what kind of top end speed would you have with that if you aren't setting your car up for drag? what other rear-end gears would work good with this?

I'm using 5.13 gears and my tires are 31" tall. Just remember, with the viper version of the T-56 the final gear ratio is .5:1 so it'll be the like cutting your rear end ratio numerically in half, so it sixth gear it's like my rear end gear is about a 2.57 gear ratio. 75mph for me is almost 2100 rpm.

With a 4.10 it would cut it to 2.05 for highway cruising. So 75 mph would be a little under 2000 rpm with a 26" tall tire. It all depends on the tire your running, just be sure the highway speed you want to cruise at will be comfortable. For this same gearing, 5500 rpm would theoretically be 207 mph (my hood would blow off for sure!).

4.56 would see a 75mph cruising rpm of 2210, not bad. 187 mph is 5510 rpm with this gear, again with 26" tires. I'd go with 4.56, it would be very quick and a comfortable cruiser.

is there some sort of formula to calculate this? i want to play with the numbers some... i'm thinking of going pro touring with 19" rims in the back and maybe havin a spare set or rims for drag or something...

I have 4.10s in my Dana 60 with 26" tall MT SRs so cruising should be nice on long trips...

Rear End Ratio: 4.10
@ Desired MPH: 58
Tire Diameter (Height) in Inches: 26
Over Drive Ratio (1 for no OD): .50
RPM at Given MPH:
1537

Rear End Ratio: 4.10
@ Desired MPH: 70
Tire Diameter (Height) in Inches: 26
Over Drive Ratio (1 for no OD): .50
RPM at Given MPH:
1854

http://www.richmondgear.com/101032.html

oh cool, thanks guys! so... in theory, i could get my car to 200mph if i set my gears up right with my tires size? any anyone come close to trying this? you guys have got me thinking now... i may have a new goal...

Quote from: sycboi on October 18, 2007, 09:50:43 PM

Quote from: Think3205 on October 18, 2007, 05:27:52 PM

get my car to 200mph

I believe that is exactly what Bill R. is looking to do...

-Michael

oh really?... how is he setting up his car? pro-touring? drag?

Quote from: sycboi on October 19, 2007, 10:03:51 AM

"Thanks. I'm pretty excited to get it back together, but I need a break, so I'm taking my time with it. I have until June to get it together, so no rush.
...I didn't want to use the "chevy" hood, unfortunately, "Mopar" hoods are dangerous at high speeds - I plan on breaking 175 with it."...Bill_Reilly

there are 2 Bill Reilly's??? sounds pretty sweet though man, what kind of engine set-up are you running?

i feel stupid now... thanks though man...

you guys should check this guy out. i just got off the phone with the owner Weir Hot Rod Products (WeirHotRodProducts.com) and he does 6-speed conversions. He is working on bellhousing that connect the t56 to sb mopars and B/RB's and HEMI's. he said they work with the 142 tooth flywheel and they should bedone this winter...

i was also told today that you can use the sb mopar (if you are running a sb) to chevy t56 bellhousing that quicktime makes if you make some sort of spacer that is 0.91" to use the viper t56. i was told that by quicktime themselves and they too are working on a bellhousing that should be done by the second quarter of next year...

If you scan through the pictures of the B2 cars you can see the amount of butchery it takes to get a T56 into an A-body.
http://www.b2hemi.com/photos01.php

Pat

Quote from: 68S on November 19, 2007, 07:53:02 AM

If you scan through the pictures of the B2 cars you can see the amount of butchery it takes to get a T56 into an A-body.
http://www.b2hemi.com/photos01.php

Pat

I wouldnt call that "butchery".....I call that top notch fabrication, my .02. Great link for the pictures thanks....helps get the visual picture. I think 6speed is the way to go

I just talk to Weir hot rod parts regarding the 6 speed kit he's got in the works......very nice guy, he needs "motivation" from some potential customers. That would get him to get it done a little faster....so any potential customers (sycboi, think3205 or Bill etc....) give him a call to let him know you are interested.....(707) 647 0513. Dont know on pricing yet

From the looks of the pictures, the body mod for a T56 doesn't seem near as bad as a mini-tub.

I want a 6 speed behind a torque monster 440 (or 500) in a bad way. 4 speed

I've not been excited about spending $5,500 for a 5 speed. Did you notice how that one Viper tranny on ebay sold for $1,125! What do you think the kit should cost, minus the tranny?

I have been lookin at viper trannies on Epay.....He didnt know on price yet, but I am suspecting they will be a little cheaper than those from Keisler. Weirhotrod doesnt know if they are gonna make a totally complete kit (crossmember, speedo,clutch pedals etc...) but he will have a mock up car (hopefully mine) around christmas time.

Give him a call to let him know you are interested......he is gonna make the parts, but needs "motivation from some of you guys".

Quote from: Think3205 on October 30, 2007, 01:17:59 PM

already talked to the guy a little ways back... nice guy, but he doesn need some motivation. he told me that as well...

I'm not worried about the crossmember as I don't mind making it myself. We have bell housing options, right? What parts do we need that are not available?

Can someone who has done it break it done for us with a parts list?

Thanks!

Forgot to mention....He didnt think much metal work on the trans tunnel has to be made, so it may be a good choice for the guys who dont want to mod the sheetmetal that much. Not sure on which or if bellhousing options you would want........You can do the swap now with an adapter from Wilcap, but you would need to figure out the crossmember, starter, etc..

Is the starter a problem? How about the slave cylinder and clutch, I guess someone has figured it out?

So at this point is there no direct viper trans to small block bellhousing available? I know lakewood offers one for SB to TKO, but is the T56 is totally different pattern than TKO?

Pentastar parts offers a complete t56 to mopar small block conversion.........but get ready for the sticker shock..........($8,350) There are adapters available for small block--viper t56. The Pentastar kit uses a Lakewood bellhousing w/ an alignment kit.

68droptop--Weir is going to use the mopar mini starter, 142tooth flywheel, I think he said 10.5" clutch.

what did you use for a bell housing?