Manual Steering: Talk Me Into It

[67Satty]

I just about to the point of yanking my 318 to make way for the 440.  I figure now is the time to change over to manual steering if I'm going to do it.  Part of me likes the Mopar power steering where you can drive the car around with your pinky finger with no effort.  But on the other hand, it seems like it makes it handle kinda scary (especially when you jump in to take a spin after driving something more modern), seems kinda loosey-goosey even though the front suspension is all new.

I've owned a couple Mopars with manual steering in the past, a '72 Challenger that I swapped from power to manual, and a '65 Coronet that came that way from the factory so I know what I'm getting into as far as steering effort.  I remember the '65 Coronet being easier to drive around town (really not a big deal at all) than the '72 Challenger, maybe because the steering wheel was a bigger diameter?

Car will be used for street/strip and I'm trying to get all the weight off the front that I can.  I'll be putting a fiberglass hood and bumper on it, etc.  If I do stay with power steering, I'll probably want to get a firm feel type unit.

[coolhandluke]

After driving my Valiant with manual steering and my last '73 scamp 440 car with power, I'd go with power.  It's a pain getting into parking spaces and out of them when I'm just barely rolling

[joesnow]

 I would go manual. More room,lighter weight,free HP,nothing to leak,one less vbelt. I am considering a quicker ratio for mine.

[doug 371]

im tired of that crappy manual box...never again in a street car

[abodyjoe]

i always convert to a manual steering box in my cars..  that stock power box just sucks if you ask me..  its way way way too easy to turn. i feel like i'm drunk when driving it.     i personally like the feel of the manual steering. even in my big block demon and big block 64 valiant i loved it...  feels alot more stable to me..   and neither was bad parking if you ask me...   then you have all the room that the lil manual box opens up...   gotta love that...

[acpat]

  with joe

[my64dart]

Hi,
  I have manual steering in my 64 Dart. Because of the steering box ratio ( slow ) & the larger steering wheel, I think I'm steering a boat sometimes. Maybe a tighter gear box would help out a lot. Trying to keep the car straight with 500 horsepower is a little harder then I'd like. But for cruiseing around its pretty easy.
      Jim

[Jim_Lusk]

We're planning on putting power steering into Jeff's Dart. I'm going to get a box out of an 80s cop car (if I ever see another one in the junk yards). Yes, it's a tight fit. My Barracuda has power already and I think it'll stay with the 440 (easier for my wife to drive it). These are all street cars. We put power into Alan's Barracuda strictly for the faster ratio while autocrossing.

[west]

manual here for the above reasons
maybe you guys just need to work out a little

[bOb shingler]

the wider front tire you have the harder it is to turn.

[moparsky]

I have a 67 GTX with manual steering, slow speed steering & parking are a real bear with manual steering. I am concidering going to a "Firm Feel" or "Steer & Gear" power steering box. Both companies offer several levels of "road feel" in updatedr boxes, so you don't have as much of a "loosie goosie" road feel as Ma Mopar's OEM PS box had. Below are their web sites;

www.firmfeel.com     www.steerandgear.com

I remember something Firm Feel's web site said about the 67 model, the power steering pitman arm is concidered a rare part & thus will cost near $200, so they recommend going with a 1973 year model PS box & then your pitman arm is much cheaper. But read it for your self to be sure
I got that right.

[dusterdarryl]

those power steer boxs weigh a ton, take up to much room, prone to leak, plus rob HP, for my duster I was looking into a steer rack out of a pinto but found a manual boxl out of a 70 ply Val, all alloy and weight was only a tad over ther racks weight, as for steering, well, you shouldnt run big front tyres on an A body anyway, they just dont like it, and with the extra weight of a big block your allways replacing front end components,
remember that the front ends stayed vertualy unchanged since the early valiants came with 13" wheels,
In aust as our Valiants got bigger into the 70s the front ends sufferd from early wear that plus a big block and adding big tyres meant even earlyer wear and wheel alinment probs,

but with a B body you probly wont encounter the same probs cause of the bigger front end components, but for all the same reasons Id say manual steer

[cu440da]

I'm swapping over to power for all the reasons listed previously. I like to toss my cars around and there is no way I could do it with manual. I tried, and there is no way you can crank the wheel of a manual steer car fast enough to compensate when you're sliding around and getting out of shape.

Plus, think how goofy you look when you're trying to park, frantically trying to keep the wheel moving while the car is still barely in motion. 

[west]

I'm swapping over to power for all the reasons listed previously. I like to toss my cars around and there is no way I could do it with manual. I tried, and there is no way you can crank the wheel of a manual steer car fast enough to compensate when you're sliding around and getting out of shape.

Plus, think how goofy you look when you're trying to park, frantically trying to keep the wheel moving while the car is still barely in motion. 

almost all race/stunt cars are manual steering,just need a quick ratio

[guzzimike]

Manual steering in our daily driver. It's OK.

It can be a bit of a bitch backing out of a parking stall at the Burger joint while holding a Coke in one hand, but you get used to it.

[74duster383]

Go with manual.  Power is nicey nicey but you got a mopar, grab the bull by the horns and git-r-done.  If you need to steer the car with your pinky while sipping on your latte, go get a chevy!  Manual steering goes hand in hand with the feel of 400+ ponies barking out the back end while the chevy guy is spilling his latte in his lap.   

[jbarker]

Very interesting thread....  here's the newbies 2 cents:
67Satty-  I'm in a situation similar to your own (debating whether or not to keep PS when the 440 goes in).
I've decided to keep the PS for my primarily street-driven car. 
This car will be driven by my wife as well (who so kindly supports by big block dart endeavors).   I think between a big block and having a decent amount of positive caster, the steering effort would just be too much for a daily driver.  My manual steer 69 Coronet was  a pain in the rear to steer, and that only had a slant 6.
Biggest down side of power steering IMO is trying to fit headers.  I'm not thrilled about the idea of putting Schumachers on my motor (kinda small), but I think that's the tradeoff I'll have to make.  I say keep PS for a street driven car.
-Jay

[sr71mopar]

Manual isn't bad. Someone still sells the mopar quick box kit for it.

[*DB*]

When I built my Dart, it was always going to be a "canyon carver" SB car. I used a NOS police box & C-body pitman, idler, & tie rod ends. The steering "feel" is about the same as my brother's cars, both running Firm Feel Inc stage 3 boxes, but I never have to turn my wheel more than about 3/4 turn (unless I'm chasing the rear around a corner, or making a TIGHT turn).

I'd recommend a Firm Feel stage 3 box if you decide to stay with a power box. It will have good feel & the input effort is about equal to new rack & pinion power steering (don't let anyone say its too hard to steer, it can be "one handed" just fine). BTW, my brother uses hand controls, so "one handing" the wheel is required!

[67Satty]

those power steer boxs weigh a ton, take up to much room, prone to leak

Prone to leak, tell me about it.  You know how when your battery tray rusts out how it can tend to take part of the inner fender with it?  No chance on this car, there is so much goo on the driver's side from the power steering leaking all over the place throughout the years, that once I scrap through the inch of gunk, I'm looking at shiny metal. 

[DustBuster]

I've had manual steering in my 68 Charger R/T, 440 Cuda and the 440 Duster. Much better road feel than the crappy power steering units. Is it a bit harder to turn when manuvering slow? Yeah, but you're a man, right?

[NYrr496]

I swapped manual into my big block Charger in the past, also a 70 Sport Satellite. My 68 rr came with manual. I just like it better. Anyone try the Flaming River manual box?

[St.Louis-Dart]

Power steering all the way,i love the old power steering..you drive with one hand by the horn or center....and spin the wheel with 1 finger to park
never drive with your hand at the top or on the side
bumps make to jerk the wheel (Looseie gooseie)

the old power steering is as cool to me as having a big block a-body..If my dart had manual i would of took it out and put power in
with my bigblock swap  ...i spit on manual steering  and i can curl 80lbs 10 times...

[west]

Power steering all the way,i love the old power steering..you drive with one hand by the horn or center....and spin the wheel with 1 finger to park
never drive with your hand at the top or on the side
bumps make to jerk the wheel (Looseie gooseie)

no thanks,i prefer to have control over the vehicle

[Womanator]

  Here's my .02 worth.

  Never put power steerring on a car that's going to go over 100 mph.1 loose line and there goe's your ride.

  If you need easier steering go with a rack and pinion set up.

  Not worth loosing your car because of going threw your power steering fluid with your back tires

[St.Louis-Dart]

Power steering all the way,i love the old power steering..you drive with one hand by the horn or center....and spin the wheel with 1 finger to park
never drive with your hand at the top or on the side
bumps make to jerk the wheel (Looseie gooseie)

no thanks,i prefer to have control over the vehicle

I had a 65 dodge truck and a 68 r/t charger with manual S hated it...all the rest of my cars had power S....been driving 29 years
and never had a accident until 2 years ago when a drunk driver rear-ended me on the highway...i think i have control 

[west]

driving around with your hand on the center of the wheel is not control.The fraction of a second longer it takes you to manuever the steering wheel might be all it takes lose control,i would'nt equate luck or lack of road time with control either

[St.Louis-Dart]

Your right.... hand in the center of the wheel is not as safe as 10 and 2  o`clock  But i think why i never had accident or lost control,<(well got kinda hairy on a few bern-outs )
and guess what i had 2 hands on the wheel  ....
and what i stressed to my son who drove the 383 dart with POWER STEERING and disk brakes all new ft-end new shocks ect ect...
form age 16-18 every day to work and school....is never be in a hurry even if your late and stay back 5 cars...dont get mad if people cut in ft of you..
i have friends  & family that are obsest with people cutting in ft of them so thay ride the cars ass in ft of them sooooo....
equate luck,,, maybe im doing the other 10 things right to control my driving?,,,lack of road time    i would fit into the avg american male of 29 years driving.
bottem line i still love power steering and i spit on manual   

[west]

  

[fourspeed]

In a Satellite? I would go with power steering if it's a street car. Firm feel box, if possible.


Huh huh huh... he said "firm feel box". -Butthead

[375InStroke]

almost all race/stunt cars are manual steering,just need a quick ratio

They don't need to parallel park.

[west]

 yes that can be tough,but how often do you parralel park?
  personally I wont park my car in a spot that tight anyways,your car will be scuffed to no end by the zombies out there.

[67Satty]

Well, if you saw my car you'd understand why I'm not too concerned with scuffs.    

But yeah, if I do stay with power steering, I will put a firm feel unit in it.

I dunno, when I switched from power steering to manual in my Challenger, it only shaved about two tenths off my quarter-mile time.  And I made a couple other minor changes at the same time so I don't even know how much difference switching to manual even made.

Anyone else have any data about how much switching to manual is worth to ET?