5.7 in 4-speed 64 dart

[DavidBrenner]

I am find ing this thread very intresting. I was planning on finding a 360 at the salvage yard and stroking it to 408 and install some Eddy heads to make about 425HP, but now it looks like I might be able to find one of the 5.7L and drop it in as is and make enough HP for my needs. I was planning to go with about 425HP just because the stock 360 wouldn't make enough as a stock build to make me happy and If I am going to "open it up" (rebuild) I might as well build it. I am realy only looking for about 320 ftlb at the WHEELS.
The salvage yards around here (Florida) want about $400 for a running engine (360). I havn't checked but it seems like the Hemi wouldn't be that much more.
Which one of the Hemi's do you recommend for me to make my torque requirements. Keep in mind I don't have anything at this point. (no intake,distrubutor, carb for the 360) Of course it has to all fit in my 67 Barracuda bolted to the 904.
What model car/truck do I ask the slavage yards for? I really would like to just install it without stroking it or rebuiling it. Any of the Hemi's come close to me needs? I don't have tons of money either. Any ideas on the total cost of such a swap.
Slavage yard engine ready to drop in. $
Headers $
Motor mounts?
Coils computer/wiring harnass?
Intake/carb or make the EFI work?

I am just tring to decide which way to start thinking. Your help is greatly app.
Brennan.

[USCG Charger]

David that is one sweet looking notchback!
TTi makes:
Headers $733
motor mounts $133
xv motor sports makes a $1400 intake carb wire harness for the 5.7L hemi
I'd go w/ a truck's Hemi

Or you can buy Bills alterkation for 3500.......

[MomsR/T]

Lee,
Is Frank Racing a new name for Heat Performance?   Those guys seem to have dissappeared and were down your way I believe.   The story of your business start up sounds similar to their's.  Was wondering...
Also, do you have a phone number where we can reach you? 

 

No sir....................HEAT was really a front for a company that use to be called The HEMI Shop....................Kelly, from what I understand is now in prison for fraud and ripping people off on the enet.

HEAT's history is NOTHING like ours................

Kelly knew us and we knew him, but as it becamee clear what was going on we steered clear of him...............Kelly had worked for a dealership and MTI prior while Steve and I are at least 10 years older than Kelly and come from a richer-racing background.

I'll PM you my number if you want to talk

[MomsR/T]

Lee, as far as your engine developments, do you forsee delving into any 5.7 packages that can maximize HP out of a 5.7 the the tune of 500RWHP +/- that will be drivable as a "pro-touring" (I hate that phrase!) type of Mope, that will be reliable and a blast simultaneously? I am hoping to appear mostly stock, would like to stay fuel injected (preferably stock injectors), would rather not fog, and am running a manual rack, no AC car here on the coast of CA. (Rarely gets above 90 F). Other than that, I am open to cam swaps, head treatments, overbores, etc...? Also, why do you dislike the 45RFE? I figure it was built ruggedly for a truck, there will be a million in yards soon, and I already have one...

Yes sir..................you can make 500 rwhp but it won't be cheap...............we can make 400 - 425 rwhp cheap, 450 - 475 a little more expensive, and 500+ fairly expensive (in the big scheme of things) considering you want EFI

The stock injectors will NOT support those numbers and the 6.1 injectors may work but will be at a very high duty cycle.............

Its not that I dislike the tranny, rather we know from powerful trucks that it eats those trannies left and right..................the only guy I know that can make those trannies work right is Sharadon Performance in MN. Jerry spent alot of time and money figuring out why they were failing and alot of that can be read about on the truck forums.

The BEST way to make a canyon carver is by using a T5 tranny and a retro kit or using an 883 and gear down a bit...................with all that power 3.23 gears seems very very reasonable with a 28" tall tire/wheel combo.

The 407ci 5.7 motor is the ticket for that big power and should make 400+ torque from 3000 - 6200 rpm but I wouldn't like to see it spin past 6400 rpm; its a torque motor.

I was talking to Cary on the phone last nite and was explaining that the cheapest and easiest way to do this is with a carb.................we could also do the FAST system but its silly expensive................................but the stock computer is what is hurting us in the stock chassis the most. Some guys have used the SPlit Second SMT6, PSC, and the Diablo tuners to work things out, but its still better on a dedicated system IMHO.

With the carb, I can use the XV controller to control my initial timing, tip in, and total timing using the STOCK coils, STOCK cam and crank position sensor, and its cheap.

You can buy the alum. intake for either the 5.7 or 6.1, the computer, the wiring harness, and all the gaskets/bolts for just under $1400 out the door..................add $450 to it for the carb......................now you're rolling down the street!

I know people want to EFI this but we're trying to take this one step at a time.....................the sooner we get more of these on the road the sooner the after market sees there is a market and they'll be more willing to support our efforts.

Cary told me some folks he's talked to and discussed some newer stuff hitting the market and my hopes are that he can help us keep in contact with these guys and offer all these products in one, easy to use website.

[MomsR/T]

I am find ing this thread very intresting. I was planning on finding a 360 at the salvage yard and stroking it to 408 and install some Eddy heads to make about 425HP, but now it looks like I might be able to find one of the 5.7L and drop it in as is and make enough HP for my needs. I was planning to go with about 425HP just because the stock 360 wouldn't make enough as a stock build to make me happy and If I am going to "open it up" (rebuild) I might as well build it. I am realy only looking for about 320 ftlb at the WHEELS.
The salvage yards around here (Florida) want about $400 for a running engine (360). I havn't checked but it seems like the Hemi wouldn't be that much more.
Which one of the Hemi's do you recommend for me to make my torque requirements. Keep in mind I don't have anything at this point. (no intake,distrubutor, carb for the 360) Of course it has to all fit in my 67 Barracuda bolted to the 904.
What model car/truck do I ask the slavage yards for? I really would like to just install it without stroking it or rebuiling it. Any of the Hemi's come close to me needs? I don't have tons of money either. Any ideas on the total cost of such a swap.
Slavage yard engine ready to drop in. $
Headers $
Motor mounts?
Coils computer/wiring harnass?
Intake/carb or make the EFI work?

I am just tring to decide which way to start thinking. Your help is greatly app.
Brennan.

Used 5.7 core = $250
New 5.7 at dealer = $1200

(highly suggest file fit rings and top gap @ at least 0.018)

New or Core 5.7 heads = $528
Port work / blue print / upgrade parts = $1650

XV Intake, controller, wire harness, kit = $1400
Cam = $430
Lifters New = $120
Pushrods = $80
Gasket set w/ new bolts for top end = $120

You still need front timing cover, new timing set, coils, crank position sensor, cam position sensor, and any small misc parts = $500 - $800

You provide the carb you already have...........be prepared to re-jet etc.

Add the TTi long tubes, block off plate, oil filter relocation, motor mounts, and oil pan - $1250 - $1400

(as you can see, there are extras you CAN do and things that are optional and things that can modified based upon your needs)

I come up with a worse case $7728 depending on what parts you want or use.

This head / cam package with a stock bottom end WILL MAKE 410 - 430 RWHP and about 430 - 450 torque depending on your carb tune, running 93 octane, and total timing at about 28*

I used very very very realistic numbers and have you shifting at 6200 rpm

This combo will get about 16 - 18 mpg depending on weather, driving style and final drive (rpm) and no one will have ANY clue its a hot motor..................no real lumpity lump lump

USCG Charger knows EXACTLY what this combo is and he can tell you this combo makes that EXACT power in no less than 15 other cars and you can expect a 3200 pound A-Body to run high 11's with a sorry-arse 1.8 60' times and if you dedicated yourself to actually TRYING to get your best times I bet you could get this thing to run in the low low 11's

No need to have any more stall than the basic street 2800

You will make 350+ torque on a dyno from 3500 - 6000 and the car will pull like a freight train..............

THe HEMI is 35 pounds LIGHTER than a 318, the 904 you have will bolt right up, the small starter bolts right up, your flex plate bolts right up, etc

I suggest you run an electric fan with this and those costs were not included, neither was the hoses, and other stuff like that..............but those cost are the same either way right?

[USCG Charger]

Yup... Lee's right..... their head and cam pkg has proven to many and one of the best head and cam combo's around.... There are other that offer heads and cam that do preform as well and some ppl will debate Lee on this subject but the proof is in the #'s........ @ least in the 5.7L world.

I assume these 3rd gen's will take over the market in place of most LA blocks........ So most stuff that Lee is saying throwing all these #'s around, some high profile co. will be doin it too.... I can only hope for this b/c it would make this build that much cheaper.....  After word gets out to other about a quick Abody running the streets or a really fast gremlin screaming down the track, ppl r gonna wanna know and what what u'v got......''

If some bolt on's can make a very low 12 sec car (12.007) @ 4300 lbs what will it do to my Abody?

Jason

[DavidBrenner]

Called 3 different salvage yards looking for the 5.7 longblock, and everyone wants about $4000-$4500 dollars. This comes with coil packs and such but dosen't come with any belt driven accessories. Seems crazy high to me. I think I'll be looking at the 360 strokers again.

[MomsR/T]

thats silly..................you don't need the accessories all you need is the block ($1200 NEW) and heads ($528 NEW)

Block and heads core @ $750 running or not and I can buy the whole damn motor brand new from Dodge for the dollars they quoted you and get a warrenty...............you ought to take a closer look because its not as expensive as you may think.

Your stroker will cost about the same if not more with consideration to your build..................long tubes are long tubes and TTI won't make you a deal just because they are going on a 360 vs a 5.7L

Same goes for a cam, lifters, hoses, fan, etc etc etc

If you pay the same but get more power out of a smaller package why not dig a little deeper and validate my numbers......

[MomsR/T]

Yup... Lee's right..... their head and cam pkg has proven to many and one of the best head and cam combo's around.... There are other that offer heads and cam that do preform as well and some ppl will debate Lee on this subject but the proof is in the #'s........ @ least in the 5.7L world.

I assume these 3rd gen's will take over the market in place of most LA blocks........ So most stuff that Lee is saying throwing all these #'s around, some high profile co. will be doin it too.... I can only hope for this b/c it would make this build that much cheaper.....  After word gets out to other about a quick Abody running the streets or a really fast gremlin screaming down the track, ppl r gonna wanna know and what what u'v got......''

If some bolt on's can make a very low 12 sec car (12.007) @ 4300 lbs what will it do to my Abody?

Jason

shiiiiiiiiiiet......................we have no less than 8 to 10 cars with JUST heads and cams on the 6.1 going 12.00 to 12.4 at 114 to 119 mph and we have the ONLY heads/cam car with a 100 shot fogger going under 11.49 that was then kicked off the track.....................and this car was at 4600+ race weight.

I think if a person was to price out a stroker 360 with all the doo-dads and compare TOTAL COST compared to a stock bottom ended 5.7 with heads and cam only............the cost is about the same and the 5.7 will whoop it (with all things being equal)

Then consider the 5.7 will get better milage, is lighter, and will have better street characteristics

[kzcountry]

Is there a number I can give you a call and ask a couple of questions right now?   Your PM is over the limit.

[DavidBrenner]

Well the salvage yrds I've contacted are "silly" as you say because a NEW longblock from the dealer is $4960 (no coil harness,ect). A short block is $2800. A Crate motor from the dealer is about $10,000 from throdle body to pan. Part # P4510593 (MPI) or P4510594 (carb) this motor puts out 360hp/360ftlb.
Not sure where your getting your pricing but somethings not right.

[USCG Charger]

I'msure Lee get's those priced @ that rate b/c he buys them regularly...... I bought my block, heads, and all the fixins for $200....

[Q-ship]

For those that may be interested, I bought a new 2008 production engine for $2,995 form Go Chrysler in Golden Colorado. They are totally complete from the injection to the oil pan (which happens to be aluminum, and looks as though it may work in a B body).  It also includes the harness but no PCM and is MDS equipped, which for my RR vert is important to me as drive it over 10,000 miles per year.

I found NEW early (non MDS) engines for $2,500 from a couple of sources, but since I wanted the MDS, I didn't keep the info on where these are.

If anyone is interested you can call GO Chrysler at (888) 382-4829. I talked to Clair in parts.

Craigslist.com is another good source for reasonably priced engine/trans combos from wrecked vehicles, and I’m sure that there are many other sources that may be closer to any particular location.

Lee: Thanks for the info. Can you find out what the stock rod width is? Also, what is the length/width/other specs on the Honda rod you talked about.

What are the specs (stroke, bore, CH, rod ratios) on your various stroker kits?

Can you find out what sonic numbers you are getting?

Thanks.

[DavidBrenner]

For those that may be interested, I bought a new 2008 production engine for $2,995 form Go Chrysler in Golden Colorado. They are totally complete from the injection to the oil pan (which happens to be aluminum, and looks as though it may work in a B body).  It also includes the harness but no PCM and is MDS equipped, which for my RR vert is important to me as drive it over 10,000 miles per year.

I found NEW early (non MDS) engines for $2,500 from a couple of sources, but since I wanted the MDS, I didn't keep the info on where these are.

If anyone is interested you can call GO Chrysler at (888) 382-4829. I talked to Clair in parts.

Craigslist.com is another good source for reasonably priced engine/trans combos from wrecked vehicles, and I’m sure that there are many other sources that may be closer to any particular location.

Lee: Thanks for the info. Can you find out what the stock rod width is? Also, what is the length/width/other specs on the Honda rod you talked about.

What are the specs (stroke, bore, CH, rod ratios) on your various stroker kits?

Can you find out what sonic numbers you are getting?

Thanks.

I called them and what you say is true. How do you plan to install it? Are you going to buy the direconnection electronics? Do you have a picture of exactly what you received or a description of the parts that came with it? For example front brackets and plastic top cover that says 5.7L, ect. I am really strongly considering getting one. Do you need to run the factory trans with the computer? The standard HP is enough for me as I have a Slant6 now.

[MomsR/T]

For those that may be interested, I bought a new 2008 production engine for $2,995 form Go Chrysler in Golden Colorado. They are totally complete from the injection to the oil pan (which happens to be aluminum, and looks as though it may work in a B body).  It also includes the harness but no PCM and is MDS equipped, which for my RR vert is important to me as drive it over 10,000 miles per year.

I found NEW early (non MDS) engines for $2,500 from a couple of sources, but since I wanted the MDS, I didn't keep the info on where these are.

If anyone is interested you can call GO Chrysler at (888) 382-4829. I talked to Clair in parts.

Craigslist.com is another good source for reasonably priced engine/trans combos from wrecked vehicles, and I’m sure that there are many other sources that may be closer to any particular location.

Lee: Thanks for the info. Can you find out what the stock rod width is? Also, what is the length/width/other specs on the Honda rod you talked about.

What are the specs (stroke, bore, CH, rod ratios) on your various stroker kits?

Can you find out what sonic numbers you are getting?

Thanks.

I called them and what you say is true. How do you plan to install it? Are you going to buy the direconnection electronics? Do you have a picture of exactly what you received or a description of the parts that came with it? For example front brackets and plastic top cover that says 5.7L, ect. I am really strongly considering getting one. Do you need to run the factory trans with the computer? The standard HP is enough for me as I have a Slant6 now.

David.............this is what I've been saying................I gave all those answers and then some.

You don't need too many front brackets unless you are running power steering, AC, or whatever. Plastic cover? I'll give you all the plastic covers you can ever want...........I have enough to shingle a house. But if you run a carb you use a regular air filter just like any other motor.

If you have hopes of running factory auto trans over your 904 or running the facotry EFI then you're on your own because better men than we have tried and failed...............you can not make this power using the facotry computer without EXTENSIVE work and lots of money and fabrication.

I gave help in how to do this for as cheap as you can do it and I've modeled a business around it.

If you can't get the stuff that cheap then you can buy it from me and the shipping via motor freight is still only about $250

And yes.......................I own alot of this stuff and have been collecting it for over a year waiting for this day.

Our wedbsite opens next week, new shop with our first employee starts Jan 7th (thank God!)

I've worked almost every nite, every off day, and every weekend for over a year.................and my partner even more hours.

Q - Lets talk via phone and I'll help you out.

[DavidBrenner]

I would like to run the factory EFI and my old 904. The dealer says the direct connection has a computer for about $2200 and the harnass for $700 more. I don't want to touch the motor. The 360HP is good for me. I would like to talk to you via the phone. Please Email me your #  Brenair123 at bellsouth dot net

[Rich]

Lee, That all sounds great...425~475 RWHP is totally up my alley. I am willing to go carb, or even throttle body, but would love to take advantage of the factory injection system...it's too bad Chrysler did a number with their programming on the engine. I talked to one of the engineers @ Painless maybe a year and a half ago, and they were trying to crack Chrysler's programming to overide all of the B.S. limitors/anti-theft/traction controls etc... and were having a really tough time. (Tougher than GM or Ford) They had originally announced a stand-alone computer w/ harness setup in conjunction with Comp Cams and I don't think it ever made it out of R&D.

As far as the 45RFE, I haven't really kept up with any discussions about it...good to know you have some feedback. I would ultimately love a manual car for this application, but I have never tried to convert an auto car into a four speed car. Nor do I know anyone who has. Anyone else know?

[az426hemi]

This has become a great thread!!

Has there been any mention of what manifolds may fit the early a body with the 5.7?  I have a 63 Dart I am interested in putting the engine in.


Thanks,
Mike

[MomsR/T]

running the facotry truck or LX tranny is a huge problem.........more so on the LX tranny because its a Benz part.

Lemme explain.............

These cars have ESP, YAW control, and several other small doo-hickies

THe computer is trying to read torque input, output, excessive wheel spin, and several other functions....................these are controlled by the PCM..................while the motor functions are controlled by the TCM.

WHile these are unique systems, they look towards one another for answers to sum up what they need to do to accomplish the "task".

If you go an jerry-rig some system to use PART of the PCM with no regards to the TCM then the PCM must default to a fixed factor as apposed to a variable...............therefor a system that relates to constant changing conditions does not exist and the PROs of using the modern tranny goes away and the tuning on the stock PCM is less than stock.

What you end up with is a mess...............I don't care what some sales guy is saying....................I've been working on this since it started and I've talked to everyone that will talk with me about it.

There is no advantage to running the Dodge computer only pitfalls.....................and if later you want to go in and make computer changes to tune a cam, heads, exhaust (or whatever), you will have even more pitfalls because the computer will not have variables to adjust because you are running a hack job.

If I was going to spend $2700 on a computer and harness, I'd bite the bullet and go for a whole FAST system and say screw it................at least you get a reliable system thats not hacked that can do everything you need and can be expanded.

I warn against running the truck tranny anyways because its been a HUGE weak point for the truck guys making power....................they break trannies like Bruce Lee broke boards.

The car tranny is far far far stronger and is the SAME piece that you see in an E55 AMG and can take 550+ hp.................the 4500+ pound LX cars are running 10.99 to 11.49 all day long and people aren't breaking the trannies..................but forget about hacking the computer system because the cost/benefit just isn't there.

Someone COULD get all this comuter stuff figured out........................but like I said, from a business perspective its just not going to happen because @ maybe $250,000 of invested R&D will mean you'd have to sell a truck load of these parts and its just not going to happen.................

If you think I'm some kind of freak...................go read about how HOTROD mag, with all their resources, had to Jerry-rig a setup to dyno a 5.7 / 6.1 and you'll see that its no cake walk.

And if you're going to keep the 5.7 stock, then the 360 is a more feasable route........

But if you want POWER, then the modern HEMI is a no brainer.....................but at this stage in the game, you're not going to see a butt load of parts because quite frankly the market just isn't there yet......................WE are the market.

The 5.7 on a 727 or an 883 or a T5 is pretty easy and yet cost effective........................COMPLETE swaps are expensive and a nightmare that will actually not mateiralize into the power made by the less expensive combos..........

I hate to come across as a know-it-all or an a-hole but I want everyone to understand I've spent countless hours doing this and I know the product and I've built the business...............I'm telling you these things because they are FACTS....................this stuff has been studied EXTENSIVELY and by multiple groups.

VORTEC, Kenne Bell, SOuthern SPecialties, and others can NOT super charge the stock computer because of issues I won't go into.........

Kiesler said over a year ago that they were going to produce a swap of the T56 into the modern LX and couldn't crack the computer and it never happened..................

Painless tried to make a run at it and couldn't......................

I am warning you that trying to use the factory EFI is not a route an average person should consider because you'll end up disappointed......................and the factory truck tranny won't hold any power..............

Use the resources I provided if you do not believe me..........................

And the reasource to BUILD a truck tranny that will hold power; call Jerry or Denny @ Sharadon Performance and tell them Lee @ Frank Racing told you to call..............

[MomsR/T]

This has become a great thread!!

Has there been any mention of what manifolds may fit the early a body with the 5.7?  I have a 63 Dart I am interested in putting the engine in.


Thanks,
Mike

beautiful car sir.........................seriously.......................way awesome.

Unfortuantely you'll end up cutting stuff up to fit.....................maybe not as bad as a RB motor but still too tight with stock fender wells.

[MomsR/T]

I would like to run the factory EFI and my old 904. The dealer says the direct connection has a computer for about $2200 and the harnass for $700 more. I don't want to touch the motor. The 360HP is good for me. I would like to talk to you via the phone. Please Email me your #  Brenair123 at bellsouth dot net

If we run the MOPAR EFI computer, I think I can get it for you a tad cheaper than that.

But once again................if we are comparing a 408 stroker to a bone stock 345 HEMI then take the stroker; seriously.

I'll email

[MomsR/T]

Lee, That all sounds great...425~475 RWHP is totally up my alley. I am willing to go carb, or even throttle body, but would love to take advantage of the factory injection system...it's too bad Chrysler did a number with their programming on the engine. I talked to one of the engineers @ Painless maybe a year and a half ago, and they were trying to crack Chrysler's programming to overide all of the B.S. limitors/anti-theft/traction controls etc... and were having a really tough time. (Tougher than GM or Ford) They had originally announced a stand-alone computer w/ harness setup in conjunction with Comp Cams and I don't think it ever made it out of R&D.

As far as the 45RFE, I haven't really kept up with any discussions about it...good to know you have some feedback. I would ultimately love a manual car for this application, but I have never tried to convert an auto car into a four speed car. Nor do I know anyone who has. Anyone else know?

Its funny......................do a search on the LS1 guys who have switched over to a carb setup and find out which goes faster and which is cheaper......................both answers will shock you.


THe LS1 swap into early model cars got so polular that there were new NHRA and IHRA class rule changes to accomidate........................and now they dominate.

I'd like to see the 345 HEMI do the same thing in 2009 *(but once the NHRA and IHRA figure it out they'll bump the class / weight and slow us down)

[Joe-Dokes]

To Keep the Fuel Injection or Not.

I really like the mounts that Bill has created for the Alter K and feel that it is the best way to install a new hemi in a classic Mopar.

I am still debating whether to use the 545 Transmission or not.  Moms RT AKA Lee, I had assumed that the transmission in the truck was the same as the car, you say that is not the case, could you please elaborate?  This makes me want to buy my junkyard motor from a 300 or Charger than from a truck.  Does anyone know if the factory accessories off the Magnum, 300, Charger fit in a post 67 A-body?  I know that Bill was pretty certain that they wouldn't fit the 66 and earlier but was unsure about 67 and later.

The issue of the fuel injection is more complicated.  First off I think it depends upon the source of the motor you are putting in your car.  For example, if I buy a complete pullout off of ebay of a 5.7 hemi here is what I get and what I'll need to buy.

What You'll get.

Complete Long Block
Intake and Exhaust Manifolds
Complete accessories
545 Transmission

Total Cost: Between $2000.00 and $3,000.00 Dollars

Benefits: (Please correct me if I'm wrong, but please be very specific about my mistakes , it doesn't help to tell me I'm wrong without a reason. )
1. Factory high output Alternator
2. Factory single serpentine belt
3. Factory power steering pump, (I BELIEVE, this can be modified to work with the power rack unit on the Alter-K)
4. Factory A/C Compressor, (I emailed classic auto air and they said it would work with their kit)
5. With Headers, this stock motor will probably put out 375 Hp, which means it would smoke an original 340 Car. With 3.73 Gears it would probably be a low 13 second car, maybe high twelve on a good day?
6. Factory Fuel Injection makes a thirteen second car that will start and run beautiful and get twenty miles per gallon.

Additional Parts that you would need to buy.
1. Headers, it appears as of my writing this that the TTI headers still seem to be the best way to go, they are specifically designed to fit the Alter-K.
    Cost: $700.00 If they fit and look nice it might be worth it.  QUESTIONS: 1) Does anyone know for a fact that the stock 6.1 Hemi Headers fit in an A-Body?  Will the 6.1 Hemi Headers bolt up to a 5.7 Hemi?  If they will, what is the expert opinion on the overall effect positive or negative? (obviously they would not be as good as the TTI or custom headers but would they be better or worse than factory log manifolds on the 5.7?) FYI Hotrod did an install in which they successfully used the jeep exhaust manifold in a duster with factory K member and suspension.

2. Wiring Harness from Street and Performance $995.95

3. Reprogram computer S and P $485.00

4. Fuel Delievery Stuff, throttle position switch, fuel pump, etc. about $600.00

Costs and Downsides

1. HP limitations.  As of right now you cannot program your own computer.  You basically have three choices.  Buy a Mopar computer and harness, or Buy a Fast System.  The key benefit of the FAST system is its completely tunable.  Add a turbo, no problem just re-tune and maybe add bigger injectors, and or bigger fuel pump.  Add NOS, no problem just make sure your injectors can provide the fuel necessary so you don't go lean.  Major down side?  Cost 2,000 to 3,000 just for the computer.  In addition, I would assume that the learning curve on programing a car for maximum performance is probably pretty hard.  Third option which is the option promoted by Lee, is to ditch the injection and go with a carb.  Cheaper but not free, it is about the same cost of making the factory fuel injection work, except that you are able to bump the HP from 375 to 500 without worrying about technology.

2.  The computer problem may soon be solved.  hptuners.com is working on hacking the factory computer.  They currently charge about $500.00 for the software to re-calibrate the Chevy and Ford systems.  The factory computer doesn't have the ability to get too fancy, for example if you want to go with a dry NOS system or Turbo application you are basically forced to still go with something from FAST.  That being said from normally aspirated power or people willing to do a wet squeeze the factory computer can handle up to about 600 hp.  Assuming that you have the fuel pump and injectors to support that level of performance.

Lots to think about.  

When I bought my 67 Dart a year and a half ago, I thought a lot of this swap stuff would have already been figured out.  In a way I'm kind of glad that I don't have any money.  It has forced me to slow down and think about all the possibilities and plan ahead before I spend any hard earned cash.

Regards

Joe Dokes

[MomsR/T]

Joe.......

#1. Truck tranny is an American 4 speed while the LX tranny is a German 5 speed (different model numbers, different TCMs, and thus need different PCMs)

#2. Car accessories will NOT fit in any A-Body without altering sheet metal...........but all you really have to buy is the front cover off the truck (not expensive). THe only real difference in the accessory crap is the front cover............there aren't really brackets like the old days, they form the "brackets" as apart of the structure of the frt cover................its all intergrated. Most will want the car motor because the reluctor wheel on the car HEMI is a much stronger piece................many truck guys broke the reluctor wheel in their motors running high RPM's with an under drive pulley....................that was fixed by the time the 2005 LX came out. Cheap part / easy upgrade

#3. Benefits...................true or false:

1. Alternator - but you'll have to figure out how to do the internal / external voltage regulator and possibly chop up your wiring harness...................then the question of "Do you have a wiring harness that you'll slipe into that can run the AMPs the modern alternator will push out?"

2. Serp Belt - we'll run this no matter what

3. Factory steering - now you're way beyond me...............

4. A/C - WTF?!?! 

5. True true and true - low 13's bone stock and yes will smoke the doors off a lightly modded 340

6. 20 miles a gallon? Possible..........depends on final drive

7. I do NOT know for a fact the 6.1 heads fit the A-Body

8. I do know for a fact the 6.1 head fits the 5.7..........the 6.1 port window is bigger but we've done this on several customer cars and it runs nicely and the header is a nice piece.

9. I know for a fact that they are SO much better than the factory setup its a MUST

10. You are WRONG WRONG WRONG that carbing will cost the same.................XV intake manifold, XV timing controller, and wiring harness cost $1400 COMPLETE..................all you need is the 8 coils, the STOCK cam position sensor, and the STOCK crank position sensor...................use your own existing carb or I'll sell you one.............how can you get cheaper than that?

And now you can change your intitial timing, total timing, and tip in.....................AND all the regular MSD add-ons plug right in................AND its programmed to use batch fire........so make sure you use the 2006 and up LX coils for best results and to make the MOST power.

11. HP and SCT have been cracking this for some time while Diablo has already craked it...................but the issue is, once you go and start taking WHOLE SYSTEMS out of the wiring harness, then you screw up many of the other tables that you needed to tune with...........

The HP and the  SCT systems are NOT being written to pull off the tranny, rear end and all that stuff and make run with a 904 / 727..............and how are you going to run the truck or car TCM without it seeing ANY of the wheel sensors or the reluctor wheels on the half shafts?

The tranny is going to act all crazy because you stole half its inputs.............

So then the computer guy hacks into that and write that variable out and puts in a fixed or "known" quantity...................but now you're stuck on that known quantity and you can forget about ever making a change as you want.

See the issue?

And if you go back a re-read this whole thread, I got guys that want to use truck stuff and some that want to use car stuff (2 different programs COMPLETELY because of the tranny issue)

Then you have some guys that want to use the modern motor with the old tranny (another different program)

Now a dude wants the modern motor but with the T56 and its hookups to work................(a whole OTHER program)

Who the hell is going to write all these programs and all these different wire harnesses?

There isn't the ROI to dump all those hours into it so I'm afraid we'll have to learn to compromise or some idiot will have to waste his own time and money making it and go bankrupt so the rest of us can play. 
(but I hope not)

What I hope to do is use my understanding of the older cars and the newer cars and introduce people who are just now learning the coolness of Mopar products thru their Mopar LX...................we are getting alot of NEW Dodge lovers and they are "wow-ed" by this new motor.

I am trying to show them that the LX (while very cool and kinda fast) is fast..................if you drop 1500 pounds, add a 1 piece drive shaft, add a solid rear end, change gears, add a solid frame, and a 3 speed w/ trans brake.............

NOW YOU HAVE A FAST CAR!

I think you'll see people migrate from their daily driver into the A and B bodies and pick up a "weekend" car.

Please keep this discussion going and continue to ask questions...................