Paint System

[340dart]

if you had a choice who would it be you would pick for a paint system??  or has the best paint system??
DuPont   sikkens    PPG or Kline's                       


                                                also if anyone knows of a company, i am looking for dark black, there is a shade difference  and i am looking for the blackest black non metallic i can find,, or does something like that need to be custom made??

chris

[4speeddemon]

ive used both ppg and dupont.... im a dupont fan all the way, they have a primer sealer system called value shade it has different shades for whatever color you paint unlike ppg. also i like duponts clear better it seams to lock up harder and faster then ppg...

if you wan a simple black no metallic dark as can be use 99K (dupont code) its the most basic black you can get.

im sure other people will have there own ideas on whats best not saying the other brands are bad dupont is just what i like and what i think works best...

4speeddemon

[mrpatel]

If you are starting with a car that has been stripped to bare metal, I would go with the Du pont single stage urethane, water sand and clear.This will give a lots of depth, along with a lot of product build that you may want to avoid if you are painting over an exisiting paint job (edges will be prone to chipping).  I have had good results with Sikken, Glassurit, Standox, but Du pont seams to be well represented in my area if you need any technical help. The main thing I would recommend, is pick a product / system and use it from prime to top coat, do not mix and match.

[Bakaruda]

Sikkens is PPG. There are some chemical difference in the paint. The guys I know say you can use Sikkens paint and use PPG clear. This is what I am doing. It lowers the cost by about 20%.

[blown71duster]

 I have never used it, but I have heard that house of kolors black is supposed to be the best black there is. It is more of a high end paint.

['73Dusta]

  Keep the info. coming. Good subject. I haven't kept up with the new paints. The last car I painted was 10 years ago.

[CudaSRT8]

Definately choose one brand's "system" and stick with it throughout.   As a professional painter on and off since the 70's, I used to like DuPont.   In the 90's I switched to PPG and liked it better and I use it to this day if I do any kind of painting.   

If you're shooting a metallic, use a base/clear system.    If you're shooting a solid color (black, white, red, etc.), use a single stage.  (I've had guys come up to me who couldn't understand how my single stage finish looked better than their base/clear!).   

It's kinda funny about who has the "blackest black".   Out here in Northern Calif, the general concensus is that PPG has the blackest black.   That is also my experience when I compared PPG and DuPont's blacks.   However, you're going to get a lot of different opinions on this.   

One last thing re: House Of Color.     HOC is definately a high end, custom color paint.   Total cost with their system can get REAL EXPENSIVE.   I know a custom painter who does nothing but street rods.   He did a lot of work for Roy Brizio Streed Rods but has now left the area.   I have a lot of respect for him and his work.   He used to use PPG, DuPont or HOC for the base coat (depending on what color was being used), but definately preferred House Of Color's clear for the final finish.    He never had a problem with mixing the base/clear brands.   However, these were primarily garaged, trailered, small street rods that never saw harsh temperatures and weather conditions.  Many of them were destined for the Grand National Roadster Show.     

Good luck with your choice.   My cuda will be shot using an all PPG system...

[Duster440]

Sikkens is PPG. There are some chemical difference in the paint. The guys I know say you can use Sikkens paint and use PPG clear. This is what I am doing. It lowers the cost by about 20%.

Actually Sikkens is an Akzo-Nobel product. Akzo makes three lines: U-tech, Lesonal, and Sikkens. Sikkens is the most expensive. (I have a friend who runs a paint store with this manufacturer's products). Production shops will use Sikkens for speed - not necessarily because it's "better" than Lesonal.

PPG and Dupont are two other manufacturers. Where I live, another dealer sells these two products. Of course, the BASF, Sherwin, and others. As others have said, it is advisable to stick with one brand throughout the process but not an iron-clad rule. I've seen deviations when you get to the clear. When you deviate from one system to the other, if there is a problem, then no one will stand behind their product.

[rrstroker71]

BASF/ Glasurit makes a Jet Black, We just painted a 66 B body Resto mod with it. It is deeper and Richer than the stock Chrysler black on the 70 cuda we did. It is available in a single stage urethane and you can sand it with 2000 grit and use a urethane clear over it for even more depth. Glasurit will out last either PPG or Dupont. Belive me. If I had to go with another product [cheaper] I would choose PPG over Dupont hands down. Sikkens is right there with Glasurit as far as Quality, but both are more $$$ than PPG/ Dupunk
 

[Bakaruda]

The PPG dealer in Nashville is the one who told me it was PPG. When they mix it they use the same cans that they do when they mix PPG. That I have seen.

[rrstroker71]

PPG does NOT own Sikkens. Sikkens is a German Company and they do not associate with PPG or Dupunk. I know this for a FACT!

[NYrr496]

For the blackest black possible, go look at some BMW's and Mercedes Benzes. If you see a factory black you like, get the paint code and have it made up by the manufacturer you choose. When's the last time you saw one of those cars with less than perfect paint?

[Bakaruda]

Dude I am not arguing that. I am telling you what I have seen at the PPG paint place in Nashville. Besides what the hell does it matter. They are so close in formula that it is a great paint for the money!

[rrstroker71]

BMW and Mercedes use BASF/ Glasurit paint so he is right. Jet black would be used on BMW and Mercedes. Bakaruda has been scamed by his dealer. I have been doing the for 20 years.

[Ivor383]

IMHO the deepest black you can get is the Piano black system developed by BASF/Glasurit for Maybach in Germany.

Alternatively, use a ready mixed black not one from the tinting base system.. look for Carbon black as a stand alone colour as that will be the purest black, whereas the tinting base system is likely to produce a brownish or blueish black.

[demon340v]

i use Valspar parent company of House of Kolor

I stand by their paint for not waxing my engien compartment in over 3 years it still looks great less all the scratches i ahev put into it from working on the car but oh well it gives it character!

[smallbigblock]

Great info - That's why I love this board

[demon340v]

Great info - That's why I love this board

I agree alot of knowledge on these forums and it has helped me out alot

[mrpatel]

Wait until you (and if) have a problem with clear adhesion, solvent pop, bleed through etc. and you tell them you did not use the entire paint system. Its cool that you saved a couple of $$$ but the time and agrivation to redo the paint one year later does not out way the savings!! I have painted cars for a long time, manufatures and paint reps will always look for a way out if possible. Pic a color, have a test panel / cards (s) sprayed for you and deceide, then go with it from prime to top coat, don't try to save money here (same with bondo, putty's, fiber glass etc).  It's a pain in the a*% but thats why they charge the money they do to refinish your car. I'm finding the same is true with re chroming / get what you pay for I guess. Good luck and lets us know what you go for!!

[Ivor383]

  Mr Patel, you are right on the money sir, always stick with a complete matched paint system.

On my Road Runner resto I used epoxy etch primer, high build primer, basecoat and clear all R-M products, not cheap but, I think you'll agree, it didn't turn out bad.

Oh, I'm doing an A body now, that's why I'm here!

[71 demon child]

ive used both ppg and dupont.... im a dupont fan all the way, they have a primer sealer system called value shade it has different shades for whatever color you paint unlike ppg. also i like duponts clear better it seams to lock up harder and faster then ppg...

if you wan a simple black no metallic dark as can be use 99K (dupont code) its the most basic black you can get.

im sure other people will have there own ideas on whats best not saying the other brands are bad dupont is just what i like and what i think works best...

4speeddemon

Correct me if i'm wrong but doesen't PPG have the DP line up.DP 40-LF, DP 48-LF, DP 50-LF, DP 60-LF, DP 74-LF, DP 90-LF .I'm sure that these colors would get you close to what you need.I do believe they make a primer you can tint up to about 10 %.I'm can't remember what the number is.I remember using it awhile ago.My memory doesen't usually go back but a couple days .

[mrpatel]

Mr Patel, you are right on the money sir, always stick with a complete matched paint system.

On my Road Runner resto I used epoxy etch primer, high build primer, basecoat and clear all R-M products, not cheap but, I think you'll agree, it didn't turn out bad.

Oh, I'm doing an A body now, that's why I'm here!

Your car looks great and probably will for many years. Great job!

[Bakaruda]

PPG does NOT own Sikkens. Sikkens is a German Company and they do not associate with PPG or Dupunk. I know this for a FACT!

I must eat some crow. I kept saying Sikens. I was corrected by my friend. I was talking about Omni. Which is what I was showed and evrything. This is a major fubar. I have seen cars painted with Omni and cleared with PPG.