A-body Heddman headers install w/ B engine.

[flyboy01]

Hey Flyboy-Just something to consider...How much power do you really think you can put to the pavement? If you're not planning on minitubbing it, can you really use more than 500 hp?
I originally wanted to put 2" TTI's on my car.  But then I thought: $800 fot TTI's, ditch the power steering, pay for a manual steering box, two day project to change starter, smash the shit out of my new $800 headers to get them to fit....
I said wait... maybe the Schumachers will do just fine.
Think about it.

thiking about it...no.

1. 1 5/8" headers cannot support more than a stock 383, I will hope to be near 450hp by the time I am done, maybe not now, but later. I had 1 5/8" headers on a small block, and they were limiting the power output. Also, why pay as much for small Schumaker headers when I can buy TTi' for $100 more. 1 3/4 is the minimum I will consider for a 383 or 400.

2. I do plan on minitubing it. Being honest with myself, this will not really be a street driven car, pretty much just to and from the dragstip.

3. I already have a manual box on the way, its also a weight savings compared to power steering.

[redfastback]

good point.  my buddy just picked up a 67 dart /6 car.  really straight and rust free.  we are putting in a 383/727 and we were just gonna get the schumachers.  do they fit good?  how much power is lost between those and other long tube ones?

[75Dart440]

Here's the test Schumacher Creative Services did with their headers versus the 2" primary long tube headers in a Baccaruda.  http://www.engine-swaps.com/Header_Performance_2002/index.html

If their test data is accurate, there isn't enough of a HP loss for me on the street.  Personally, anything above 500HP for me would be wasted since I don't plan on cutting the rear of the car.  If I could easily slip in a set of good fitting 2" pipes in the engine bay with killing the starter and cutting the inner fenders, then that might be a different story.

[qkcuda]

flyboy, your build is going to be very similar to mine.  I am using the Hedman 1 3/4 B body headers.  Once I figured out what had to be clearanced, they fit very well, and are nice and tight to the floor.  Better than any small block header I ever ran.  From a horsepower standpoint, I made 415 HP and 450 lb/ft of torque with a mild Crane cam.  I actually exceeded the torque numbers from a magazine article which did the same build but using 1 7/8 headers.  I am now going with the MP 292/509 (114) a new intake and carb and hope to see 450 at least. 

[flyboy01]

Here's the test Schumacher Creative Services did with their headers versus the 2" primary long tube headers in a Baccaruda.  http://www.engine-swaps.com/Header_Performance_2002/index.html

If their test data is accurate, there isn't enough of a HP loss for me on the street.  Personally, anything above 500HP for me would be wasted since I don't plan on cutting the rear of the car.  If I could easily slip in a set of good fitting 2" pipes in the engine bay with killing the starter and cutting the inner fenders, then that might be a different story.

Holy CRAP!  They lost 4/10 and 5 mph! Do you know how hard drag racers work and spend money to get that kind of performance increase? I would be super pissed if I cut off my 2" headers and lost that kind of performance.

For some it may not be an issue, especially if the car is street cruised only. That is just not me, I'm the guy making tiny changes to find .01 second improvement.

[redfastback]

4/10ths and 5mph?  well for a strictly street car i would say no big deal.  this is a just above stock 383 and i think that whatever he decides to go with won't make much difference.  if he builds it up later, then he can go with something bigger. 

[75Dart440]

Take the beer kegs out of the trunk, and put some 85lb chick behind the wheel and instantly recover those 4/10ths.

[426Savoy]

Has anyone ever tried early B body headers for a RB install ?  I have some exhaust manifolds that one of them was altered for use in a RB install in an A body, but I'd rather use headers, if possible.

[flyboy01]

Thats what we have been talking about, Hedman 383 b-body headers are supposed to work with minor mods. I might be trying a set if I can get ahold of a manual steering box. I had one coming, but USPS must have lost it, its been 5 weeks now, and it was only being shipped 180 miles. 

[farmington]

I have the Schu's on my duster.  they fit so nice that it would be easy to give up a few tenths for em.  Was thinking about seeing if I could find somebody to remake them in  a bigger diameter.  Actually, I'm surprised that schuimacher hasn't done it themselves.  Its now almost like driving a car with manifolds as far as under car clearance is concerned.  I never worry about the exhaust hitting over a bump.

[A13Dart]

  Schumacher should make these in say 1-7/8 or 2".  I'm sure there is a market for them.

[426Savoy]

Thats what we have been talking about, Hedman 383 b-body headers are supposed to work with minor mods. I might be trying a set if I can get ahold of a manual steering box. I had one coming, but USPS must have lost it, its been 5 weeks now, and it was only being shipped 180 miles. 

I thought you guys were talking about using  66 - later B body headers for A body use, not 62 - 65 B body headers. I thought maybe the 62 - 65 headers might have some more clearance.

[tduster]

  The schumachers in a larger diameter, would be great. I would think it would increase their market. They do fit nice. Maybe a set made bigger diameter for manual box only.

[Womanator]

   Took off the Schumacher's and added eldelbrock 84 cc heads and tti's 2inch headers on my 67 Dart and went from 12.03 et to 11.18 et.Added roll bar sub frame connectors narrowed rearend.446 rb engine.Heads taken off were 906"s that had been ported.Over 8 tenth's for just those 2 parts.Heads an headers must have really been choken the engine.

[mckracing]

i have a great set of shum. Y's i took off my 440 scamp.i just bought me a digital camera and should have the pics on tonight. they were a breeze to install. i bought some TTI's. two inch with three and a half collectors.they should be fun to install from what i hear.i helped a buddy put a 440 in a 68 cuda some years back using these headers and i dont remember them being too bad.of course my memory could be failing.i will put the pics on and you can make me an offer if you are interested.i had HP manifolds and went to the Y's and picked up over a tenth in the 1/8th mile.about 13 one hundredths to be exact so they are better than manifolds atleast.i got a 690 lift solid roller 440 going in the scamp with a little shot so i sacrificed for the TTI's.too much probably but i got some chivys to handle around here so the extra breathin was a must for me.the shumacers worked great with my ten to one,512 lift hydrauliccam, M1 single plane ,906 aeroheads 214-181,410 geared 440 combo.it would run 7.70s all night long in the 1/8th mile.they are just not good for RPM'S above 6,000.some thing around 2 to 6000 seemed to work good for me.just a little info incase you were interested.bustin chevys in TENNESSEE! MCKRACING

[cory]

 

[kzinge1]

I tried the Hedman B Body headers and couldn't make them work. Passenger side fit great but the driver's side was bad around the steering column and manual box. I have the Maddog's now and after a lot of dinging (more like beating) for spark plu clearance they fit. I was not happy with the way they fit though and probably wouldn't buy another set. But they are on now and I have 2" headers on a stock headed 383. These headers could be great with minor adjustments.

[Charles]

I tried the Hedman B Body headers and couldn't make them work.

Was that on a lowdeck or a 440? The tech pages here look like it "should" have been an easy install for a 383. I know, shoulda, coulda, woulda...

I bought from Darin the set he used in those pictures, but am several months away from having time/money to test fit my 451.  I'll be using a front plate anyway, so the engine position can be adjusted to make it an easier fit than using the K-frame mounts.

-Charles

[qkcuda]

Charles  The only thing I noticed about the article in the tech pages is that he had the passenger side header right up against the inner fender.  My motor is more centred, which means you have to put more clearance around the drivers torsion bar.  Height of the motor is also pretty critical to everything fitting around the steering box and linkage.

[Pro Street dart]

mckracing,

Some pics of the left side would be nice.  I am concerned how high the #1 pipe rides up on the valve cover.

[mopar_eric]

I have em on my car currently, but I'm running the schumacher mounts that put the motor in the stock position. lemme see if I can find some pics.

These are really old... but you can get an idea of side clearance




These were taken the other day but my motor's out.

[rharveysr]

From the pictures....these are the reasons that we are going to build our own. Dont like the idea of spending all that money on a set of headers just to beat the crap out of them to make them fit...

Rick

[mopar_eric]

Yea, I can't blame you for that. I paid ~125$ for these new through summit 5 or 6 years ago, so I feel like they've served their purpose

[68fish]

It's a shame there aren't more options.......(440Source, you listening???)

[mopar_eric]

Mocked up my pro-parts yesterday (sorry no pics wife out of town with camera) I had to put a long oblong ding in #6 to clear the oil pan rail as was mentioned earlier in this thread. Other than that they seem like they are going to fit well. Guess I'll cut some holes and sand these guys down for painting!

I'll snap some photos this week when my wife and camera return.

[flyboy01]

do you think they would clear power steering?

[mopar_eric]

do you think they would clear power steering?

I'm not sure exactly. I've never had PS on my dart.Would PS just require more clearance for the steering box? I.E. a longer one than manual version?

I'm hoping to have the motor installed by sunday if everything goes right (rarely does) so if things work out I'll bump this with pics of the headers installed. If I have a few more setbacks I am going to keep the hedmans in the car. My wife and I are moving in late april so my window of opportunity is closing 

[bigtimeauto]

a alterkation k member would free up a ton of room for your headers....

[JL67gt]

  but that cost$$ not bashing bill I wish it in my bug.I realy want one

[bigtimeauto]

change your starter once and it will all be worth it.