Building a Hemi Dart

[oyvind]

Hello !
I'm thinking about building a Hemi Dart, and therefore I have a few questions.

Was there ever a 1969 Hemidart ? This sources indicates so, but I have not seen this elsewhere.(  http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Dodge_Dart  )

Does anybody know where I can find more info on the Hemidarts ? Specs , pictures etc ?


Thanks in advance

[Dart67]

There were no "factory" built 69 Hemi Darts. The factory did build a limited number of 440 automatic "M code" Darts.

My old brain can not remember prodution numbers.

Herb

[68 HEMI GTS]

 

there are several ways you can go about building one, it depends on if you are after a factory look or not.

[austinbbmopar]

But some racers did change grills for the 69 year model. So if you see some of those pics, thats what thats all about

[oyvind]

I would like to go the factory route. Any info about those ??

Thanks

[Dart67]

There is a very well compiled and written spirial bond booklet out.

It is titled  "AUTHENTICITY GUIDE 1968 DART & BARRACUDA HEMI SuPER STOCK".

Written by Jim Schild with Larry Griffith"

I have a copy that is signed by Larry. Larry came to our MOPAR club meeting a couple months ago and gave a very good talk about the history of the Dodge and Plymouth Super Stock racing program. Larry has/had these for sale.

A number of our club members have been invited to a private showing/get together at a museum in a couple of weeks. Larry should be there and may have copies then. I can/will get info on how to order the guide.


Herb

       

[oyvind]

Thanks, found it for sale at mancinis and also a mopar book about a body hemis from 1968. Orderd both, will be some nice reading 

[oyvind]

Just found a 69 GT thats pretty local. I live in Europe so there are not many 68 gt or gts for sale here.
The current owner has a 392 hemi in it that he will be removing before he sells.

How big is the difference on the 68 and 69 ?

I have read the 68 Hemidart had the race hemi, would a 426 crate or 528 crate be the best match for this car ?

Any news on how good the new crate engines are ? I have read som bad report on the last gen. I think.

[austinbbmopar]

taillights, grill, sidemarkers, some trim pieces, emblems.... pretty much it... Same car pic it up! Where in Europe do you live??

[MVRCorp]

Crate hemis.....ha, what a joke. I ordered a 528 10/06 and in 5/07 I canceled the order. I was quoted 60 - 90 days for delivery and in May they still could not tell me when it would get here. Believe me, I was shocked to hear when I ordered it there were 1300 Hemis on back-order. You can build one with alot more HP for the money. My project is on hold pending $$$$$ but I'll post some pics Bill sent me of some conversions to the right shock tower that are necessary. I opted for an Alterkation front end. Posted also are what I did with my shock towers.

No sales allowed on this site but if anyone wants to e-mail me I have a line on this set-up.

2007 Magnum RT (car totaled)
Hemi, Trans & Computers for sale ......4K
Only 25,000 miles

MVRCorp@aol.com     Or 303-841-9060

Jim

[MVRCorp]

My conversion pics

[hemicop]

 Those 2 books are pretty much the bible on building a factory clone car or a fairly competitive class car --- it all depends on how deep your pockets are. I've built & sold 2 Hemidarts (stupid move selling them) one a clone, the other a class legal S/S except for the steering. I enjoyed them both although the clone car WAS more streetable , so it was more fun. I'm fixing on doing another clone. What have I learned? It's easier to build than a 440 car, it's ungodly expensive, nothing is more high profile at a cruise-in, and the one-off parts can be REAL expensive.
  As to the crate engines--- do yourself a favor & have a shop like Ray Barton's build you one. They're no more money, are tuned & dyno'd when you get it & shops like his are familiar with these cars so they can give you some insight into their quirks.......

[MVRCorp]

 

[oyvind]

Thanks for the info. Just sent an email to Ray Barton.
You mentioned that they are ungodly expensive and the one-off parts can be REAL expensive.

What was very expensive on it apart from the Hemi engine ?
What one-off parts are needed ?

[hemicop]

  The A-100 seats are getting harder to find, so they're more money. The outside mirror delete plate & correct radio/heater delete plate are kinda tough to come by. You can make the seat brackets for about 30 bucks but if you're gonna buy them, they're about $375 ( ). the correct hood scoop is only made by about 2 or 3 people. Depending on how exact you wanna be, there's the thin glass (not recomended) acid-dipped doors & bumper (do-able but costly) and the correct battery is about $400. Tack on the engine, bodywork, time & suspension pieces and even doing most of the work yourself the car's gonna be 40-50k. The other dtuff is all availible from Mancini so at least that's covered. Post some pictures--I'd like to see how you're doing........

[oyvind]

The car I'm looking at has the following specs already done to it.
Would this be good enough for a Ray barton 426 hemi with about 500-550 hk ?

* 8 3/4 with diff.

* Up front is disc brakes in the back 10" drum.

* 0,89" torsion

I'm waiting for the books so I guess I will find a lot of info about what to get there.
I havent yet purchased the vehicle, so no photos yet 

[hemicop]

 You can add the 11" brakes anytime (like the originals) and the 8 3/4 should handle 500hp (why so little?). I 'd go with aftermarket axles though as stock ones won't make it, IMO. Remember these things were crude and by todays standards had ancient tachnology in them. If you're gonna use drums opt out for real good shoes. ditto for the front brakes as a simple late model A-body disc swap will fulfill your requirements. Repo interior panels & seat covers are readily availible. Providing you're not building a museum piece my guess is it'll only take a few months to build the car........

[oyvind]

The body is said to be rust free but it does have a few small dings in it, so I guess there will be some bodywork.

What axels would you recommend ?

Can I use 1968 interior in a 69 GT ? I noticed that yearone has different partnumber for 68 and 69.

I have added some pics of the car that im looking at, what do you think ??

[oyvind]

Regarding the hemi, how high in HK can you go before even more mods are needed ?
How man hk did the 1968 race hemis have ??

[austinbbmopar]

BUY THAT CAR! Just make a nice 69! thats a good lookin car and that trim piece on the back is $$$ right there!

[hemicop]

 NOW THAT'S A NICE PROSPECT! I'm partial to the '68 grille though. As you'll see when you get those books these cars were based off the '68 "270" model, not a GT so they lacked the trim pieces your car has, although Dick Landy did build a fancier version with the tailpanel & chrome wheelwell trim. His interior WAS a S/S interior, though. Again. not knowing how detailed you want to get, the GT trim stuff could be stripped off & sold, they're always in high demand.
 Myself, I prefer Mark Williams products so I'd be calling them for axles & any other drivelone products although Strange Engineering & Moser seem to be popular locally. There are some things you can do to your car to keep its clone appearence yet will still look like an originalthat'll enhance its reliability & performance. You'll probably get alot of criticism if you cut the wheelwells like the originals, but hey, it's your car, do what YOU like. There are people here that have the templates to cut them properly, so if that's what you want,  be sure to get a hold of them. The bodyman screwed up my 2nd car & I was PISSED . The books Should answer all your questions regarding the factory cars. the one thing they didn't do then, that I would strongly suggest is that you use frame connectors on the car as these cars are flimsy. PM me if I can help with particulars on your project.

[hemi_jay]

BUY THAT IMMEDIATELY! Awesome looking Dart, will be incredible with a Hemi!       

[hemicop]

  Mopar never put a HP figure on their race hemi, though most agree now they put out about 575-600 back then. Current S/S engines are in the 900hp range. Tying the frame together & a basic 6-8pt rollbar ought to let you handle 600-650hp pretty easy, IMO.The "safety valve" in clone HemiDarts is their lack of real good suspension. Too much HP and you'll simply break the tires loose & maybe break a suspension part or 2 --- no big deal. A guy lives near me that builds these things for a living (S/S & A/FX) and Greg does a hell of a job. His cars usually run mid/high 10s which is all these things were designed to do in the first place, so obviously he has the whole thing dialed in.

[oyvind]

Thanks for all the help so far. 

Could anyone indicate how much the 426 or 472 hemi should cost from a shop and not crate ?
I'm looking for a complete engine.

Just got a quote and thought it was a bit high, it was quite abit above crates. But after reading about crates I'm a little worried about using one.

This was a cross ram hemi, were the hemi darts originally x-ram or normal ? still awainting the books 

[hemicop]

   The originals WERE crossrams, & that's where you'll spend a fair amount. But it's also what makes the engine,IMO. I'm looking at spending around 26k form Ray Barton with an upgraded oiling system. You could always use the newer x-ram Manifold from Mopar --- Mancini has them for just over 600 --- a little cheaper than RBRE but noit dialed into the motor like his are. If all you're looking for is a streetable (?) HemiDart you could have a shop do a much milder engine and add the x-ram (from Mancini) later on and use a single 4-barrel in the meantime.

[oyvind]

Thanks, I'm looking for a streetable hemidart, so thats very good advice about the x-ram.

[Arillious]

There were no "factory" built 69 Hemi Darts. The factory did build a limited number of 440 automatic "M code" Darts.

My old brain can not remember prodution numbers.

Herb

48 440's were built. could be wrong, but i remember reading this somewhere.

[oyvind]

Thanks for all the help so far.

I'm looking for a "mild" street hemi engine. Is Ray Barton the obvious choise or are there others to also look into that have a good rep.

[hemicop]

  Well, Lee Shepherd, Harry Holton, Indy, Frank Aronga (not sure of the spelling) are just some of the guys many use. You could also check with Charlie Wescott, Jim Pancake, and some old veteran hemi car racers and get their input. I only mentioned RBRE 'cause I had very good luck with them in terms of advice, cost & delivering my motor on time. In asking a question like this you'll find a bunch of people have opinions on various machine shops depending on their personal experience. As for me-- I'd swear by RBRE, others may swear AT them ......Good luck

[JCFcuda]

 You also should check out,http://www.forhemisonly.com
Tim is very good with Hemis, Wont sell you something you dont need.
I was very happy with the way he treated Me.

                                                                        Jim F