Let the cats P** on them 17" rims

[PureGTS]

I have discovered the wheels that will make all our A body lives beautiful again! I bought mine for *insert drum roll here* $5 each! NEW! Here's the poo: 17x7, plain black steel, slightly ugly, but with the hub caps on... who cares, 5" back spacing, late model Dodge Charger standad issue rims! If you don't mind the ugly centers, oversize 13/16"socket (Ford E150), wheel nuts need to be used as the wheel stud hole is slightly larger than regular early (3/4" socket) Mopar wheel nuts diameters. My 68 Dart has the 11 3/4" Cordoba front discs on it and they handled install from lock to lock at both ends of compression & rebound travel. Theyare a bit close to the 1 1/8" sway bar but I'm looking at running 215/45ZR17's so clearance should be good. Close but good at full left lock. (Sway bar favors the right side so it just needs adjusting)
  Plus these wheels are designed for a close to 4000lb car, so our 3000lb A bodies shouldn't scare them too much. The lug nuts present a problem. They are metric for teh Chargers so they can't be used. However, there is a similar metric lug nut that is the same style and uses a smaller stud so I believe they can be redrilled and tapped to 1/2" fine thread. I'm searching for what they belong to so I'll have to get back with that info. The other is they are what holds the hub caps on. So the right wheel nut is going to be a key issue if you want to use the hub caps (I do!). Talking to the local rim Guru's they say they can also be widened to 17x9's, which I suspect will present another hub cap issue but I think that can be over come with 3" wheel studs and a little enginuity. More to come pic's to follow as the engineering progresses. Stay tuned...

[NYrr496]

Check out McGuard lug nuts. They make a bunch of hybrid nuts that have the metric taper for the seat, with english threads for earlier cars with later wheels. I've used them with great success.

[dartracer]

If I remember rite, the new Chargers have a slightly different bolt pattern. Not by much but enough to make the wheels not sit rite.

[mxlplx71]

 
tire race lists the charger bolt pattern at 115mm, i think thats a 5x4" bolt pattern.
even though i dont expect my 440 dart to handle like my daytona z, im leaning twords the taller 17/18" wheels myself.

[west]

 

[rjsjea]

5x4.5 is 5x114.3mm, I believe.  115mm will probably go on, but will have wiggle room     not good.

Nyr996-  good idea, I have never used those

[CudaSRT8]

The Charger bolt pattern is NOT 4.5" .   It is in a metric dimension (as stated by rjsjea) that is not the same is the 4.5 (when converted to metric).   While it WILL go on over the studs, the studs do not center in the lug holes.  Not advisable to use. 

You might want to check into a Ford cop car wheel or a steel Mustang wheel (if one is made in 17").  They both have a true 4.5 bolt circle...

[west]

heres a ford 16" on a 4 1/2 pattern 

[jamesdart]

guys are running them. there is a really nice cuda convt i see at shows, hes got them, widened on the back. he said hes had no problems with them. ive seen pics of other cars too.

[abodyjoe]

heres a ford 16" on a 4 1/2 pattern 

 wonder if a chrysler dog dish would fit that.

[west]

i think the nubs are a little bigger and the rim they are on is a liitle fatter

[CudaSRT8]

JamesDart,
Yep, they'll go on, and I'm sure there are people whose safety standards or lack of common sense will allow them to use them.   I saw a '69 Road Runner with late model Charger R/T alloys on it.   Personally, I didn't care for the look.   The offset and backspacing didn't look right for that car. 

Hopefully those who are using them don't drive their car enough or hard enough to have problems (over time) and hurt themselves or someone else...

[68_Val_Sedan]

 

The wheels are no place to comprimise  they need to fut the studs and the lug nuts need to be centered in the holes ... or the nuts will only catch part of the wheel and will crack

[jamesdart]

i thought about running the steel wheels myself.  i dont know, i have mixed feelings. the guy with  the cuda was on the power tour with it. light yellow convt, pretty sure it had an indy hemi in it.

[flyboy01]

yes, they are off by a bit, not a bunch, but the lugs will bend, and will not retain a torque setting. it is approximately a 1/32 of an inch. It is not safe, but people do it. I don't recommend it. Another thing you could do, have the bolt patter drilled in yourn hubs and axles, most have enough room to do it.

[MOPAR70]

i put a set on the rear of my dart AS ROLLERS ONLY!!!  i dont reccomend using them either. they look kinda neat and old school but the pattern is slightly different.

[jg]

How 'bout a larger picture so we actually see the wheel... 

[MOPAR70]

sorry. heres a closer one.

[jg]

What size tire is that?  Does it clear the fender when turning the wheel?

[flyboy01]

sorry. heres a closer one.

Those look pretty fugly.  Not sure why you would want to put on a wheel that looks like a space saver spare.

[jg]

A matter of opinion, I guess.  I picked up a set of factory 17" magnum steel wheels, tires, wheel covers, and lugnuts for them for less than the price of a dinner for 4 @ Outback...     

I'd like to know right size front tire for that width and backspacing on a 17" wheel, instead of a 15" wheel.  Much different sidewall section.

[rjsjea]

How are you making up the difference between the bolt patterns??  5x4.53" vs 5x4.5"

[jg]

I'm not...  for the moment.  Just using them for mockup.  I do think they look kinda cool on the old car though.  I'll be using some other wheels (probably Vintage Wheel Works), and Bill's suspension, whenever I hit the lottery .  However, i'd bet a quick visit to a machine shop could fix the .7mm diameter difference on the wheels.  The long term goal for my '67, is to do a vintage trans-am sort of theme to the car.  Pro-touring but in a (sort of) old skool way. 

Has anyone ever seen a flared dart before?

[MOPAR70]

like i said they are just to roll the car around. i know they are ugly but at the time it was all i could find.

[PureGTS]

TonyGTS - Yes, it is for pee. Too many morons in my neighborhood get cats, don't get them fixed, turn them loose on the neighborhood, they move away leaving them, they go ferrel and propogate the spieces like rabbits, fight, mess in the yard, pee on everything and are a general pest. To date we have captured and sent away 17 of them. And yet the dumb a**es still buy more and turn them loose.    There is a cure    but it's a bit noisey and messy. BB guns don't do it, air soft is fun and entertaining but still incomplete, paint ball is much neater as kitty comes home with "color" and owner gets to bathe them (   ) and full on "powder" propellants are going to upset the MRS.    Although that is a justifiable end to the problem.
  As for the 1/32nd (0.03125") difference or 0.015625" overall diameter change, what do you suppose the tolerence is, + or -, for a standard steel wheel circle...  exactly? There are folks using them. I've seen a Black Satellite station wagon (vegas show 2 yrs ago and this year at the Spring Fling) using the aluminum Charger wheel and he reports no ill effects. That's some time using them, though not exactly a long term test but a couple years driving on them is longer than using them as rolling stock around in the garage. I would think that a cast wheel would give you more trouble than a steel wheel, and quicker too.
  Ugly? Oh gosh yes! That's why I was looking to use the stock wheel covers too. The Ford cop cars are just as bad/ugly. I have recently seen a different steel wheel design on a Charger Cop car. Those wheels look loads better without a cover! They are a large 5 spoke design that are on the Los Alamitos (Ca.) Police cars. I wonder if they'd notice...  nah, probably not a good idea. 

[CudaSRT8]

PureGTS,

The standard LX steel wheels are the 17" with a bunch of the round holes.   Yeah, the Police Pkg. wheel looks really good as it is the 5 spoke design.   With either the little hub cap or the full wheel cover it looks good.   The cop, full wheel cover is plastic but is 5 spoke and looks just like a painted, aluminum wheel until you inspect it very closely.   The 5 spoke cop wheel is an 18" wheel, by the way.   

As for the difference in lug pattern, by the numbers it may not sound like a very big deal.   I've literally fitted a steel cop wheel on my 4.5 hubs and the difference scares me.   I'm sure there are people who use them anyway.  For that matter, I once saw Charger R/T wheels on a '69 RR - didn't look right on there.  That was before I knew of the difference in bolt pattern.   I wonder if the owner new.   

To each his own on whether or not to use them.   As much as I'd love to use an SRT8 wheel on my car, there's no way I'd chance the wheel lug area or the studs fatiqueing and have a wheel come off.  I love life too much...

[jamesdart]

i like the way they look. pure gts, have you tried a spring gun? they have a gamo with  a silencer. i would bet money if your aim was good it would do the job. does the job on large birds and rodents.

[jg]

If anyone is curious, here's what the these look like all around.  225/50 in front and 255/45 in back.  I have a 1.125 adapter on the back to move the tire out a bit off the leafs, for now.  Again, i'm using these to get an idea for sizing for the long term plan (the last image is an original photo, and my photoshopped version).  I think the big steelies sort of cool/unique...





 

[PureGTS]

Cops get 18's?!?     Hmmm I may have to take a trip to the local dept' to check them out.

Has any body got the actual bolt circle measurements for the late model Charger? What do they call it? 5 on 555MM???   

According to one of my tech buddies, the tolerance on the wheel's bolt circle is .012" after that they are to replace the wheel. This makes the actul measurements critical to Y / N useage.

[CudaSRT8]

PureGTS,
I don't have that mm dimension here at home but can get it easy enough next week or someone else may comment sooner.   Again, to each his own on using the newer wheels but let me try to describe what I found when I fitted them on my car.    If you center one stud in it's hole, all the rest of the studs are off.   I just can't imagine semi-tightening one lug centered and then forcing the rest of the lug nuts on.   Even if the rest of them centered themselves, it could only be because of the force applied by the lug wrench and SOMETHING would have had to have "given" in the process.   I would think it would be the studs bending a little or the chamferred holes getting all messed up.   Am I making any sense here?