Low-buck sleeper project - advice needed

[valiantguy]

Hey everyone, been learning a bunch from the board, now it's time to pipe in...

I have a 67 Valiant Signet 4-door, slant 6, manual steer/brakes, tiny ball joints, 9" drums, auto trans, sitting for 15 years; a decent running 400 with a great shifting 727 in a 78 van/MH; a budget of $1967 to get the car running, driving & useable if I decide to go this route. I have about $1700 left and have to budget in some labor charge, as I've spent way more time in my 39 years reading & learning than actually wrenching & tuning. I have a radiator from a 69 318 AC car here, and a new gas tank on the way.

Any and all advice & general info, links to other threads (believe me I'm searching too, there's just SO much), encouragement, offers of cheap parts... I know I'm being too general here but I have to start somewhere.

Phase 1: Get engine/trans in car, get shaft shortened, exhaust hooked up, basic brake job & safety check, then take the little old lady who gave me her late mother's car for a cruise. It'll be the thrill of her life. This is where my immediate budget will go.

Phase 2: Upgrade brakes, rear end, aluminum intake with 4bbl, redo some of the stuff I rigged up during phase 1.

Phase 3: Fiberglass hood, fenders, bumpers, battery in trunk, PST front end kit, sway bar. Re-do what I screwed up while trying to fix.

The goal is not a drag car, it'll never see the track; eventually a nice repaint. Stock interior (only has 67,000 miles). Great cruiser that can throw you into the back seat when you get on it now and then, perhaps surprise some of the 5.0 backwards hat & fartpipe legions on occasion. But it has to handle decently & stop too.

Thanks so much in advance, I'll read whatever you tell me to, and it's all of great help. Can't help but think a big block Valiant could be a fun car...

[doug 371]

welcome...cant wait to see some pics

[valiantguy]

Yeah, wish I could figure out how to post 'em... the car is great on the inside but looks like a total beater on the outside. No rot. Some bondo in the hood (chunking off) and front fender (cracking). Plenty of "old lady" dings & scrapes. I just look at it and it screams "Make me a sleeper..."

~S

[fasttcars]

Good to have you on board..i don't mind  67 valiants either     {69 grill+hood tho} ..one question  tho  if it's   not gona be a racecar  why spend all that money  on expensive  difficult to get straight fiberglass?

[valiantguy]

Hey fastcars, funny you should say that, I have a complete 69 hood & front end hanging around on the side... the fiberglass? I know it'd take some weight off the front end which sure couldn't hurt. The expense though, that is a concern. I'm hoping it will be less of a concern when the time comes for that kind of stuff. That sure is a sweet ride! Is there a thread or link to pics/info on your build?

Thanks! Another 4-door Valiant guy. "Who'da thunk it." Awesome.

~S

[moparteacher]

You'll need a couple of hundred for the motor mounts, if you don't make your own. You'll want some b-body manifolds. shop around, their not very expensive.

The front brakes can be upgraded with 71-73ish b-body knuckles, rotors, calipers, and upper control arms from a wrecking yard. Rear brakes can come with a b-body 8-3/4, or an e-body axle with 3" cut out of the inside of the perches and offset shackles lines everything up. You'll need a dual piston master cylinder for safety concerns. Wrecking yard and a rebuild kit will get it done cheap. The adapter for the master will cost more the master.

best of luck

[jp260z]

Hey, good luck on the build. Plenty of good advice and knowledge on this board. I spend most of my time just reading here myself.

[Jim_Lusk]

I have to disagree with your order. Brakes, suspension, and rear end come first, above all else. The car won't be safe without it. Depending on how you accomplish this can be done fairly cheaply. Then the engine/trans swap which is a LOT cheaper than the suspension/brakes if you already have good running stuff.

[valiantguy]

I hear you, Jim... my main goal is to get it running and take the little old lady that gave me the car out for a spin for a malt or something. A few miles in our little town's center. But that's a BIG concern of mine, too. Give me an idea of how you'd do it...

I'd love to do the Mopar Action brake swap (http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/disc-main.html). I honestly don't know if I can pull it off... I'm a little shy of "tools, talent & time to do it" and way shy of "funds to buy kits & hire other people to build it for me"... seems like a popular place to be stuck, I knew this was the place to come. 

~S

[ksdartguy]

Hey Valiant,
Welcome, and start with front brakes and suspension.
Then drop in the 400. Wiith some care, the small rear will live awhile.

Rick

[fourspeed]

IMO, add the rear end to Phase 1. Or stay WAY out of the throttle. I had one of the peanut rearends grenade behind a slant six.

Clearly, Jim's advice is the best way to go - do chassis upgrades first, then drop in the big block. But, if you can't, just take it EASY!

Mark

[MVRCorp]

Welcome...........I think it's still true that you can't add pictures until you have 10 posts. So gettrrrdone.

[valiantguy]

Guys, I'd like to add it ALL into Phase 1 and make it my daily driver 'til I can get the Magnum sorted out & back from the shop ('nother story entirely)... oh I'll be light on it, believe me. I just need it running for a week, and the slant 6 in it is going to be a lot of work from the looks of what was inside the block when I pulled the water pump & how it sounded cranking it last year. I'm not ready to rebuild an engine yet; just want to put 2 and 2 together and at least end up with 3 and a half. Then after my quest is over and I've made a 78 year old lady giggle like a schoolgirl to see this car move again, the real fun can begin... and that 400/727 happens to be the only spare engine I have.

So it's either destiny or temptation. Boy that simplifies things, doesn't it?!

BTW, this  is the coolest emoticon ever, anywhere, that has ever been.

OK, so just to get it moving, what would be the minimum you'd do, past the obvious basic brake job & safety check of the ball joints, etc.

...and which B manifolds am I looking for? I just can't do the $chumaker headers yet.

Thanks everyone!
~S

[valiantguy]

Just told a gentleman looking for advice as to what to tell his wife about the latest project car he bought "Sure beats hookers and blow, don't it?" Fine advice, post number 10, and here's my Valiant!

[doug 371]

 

[Jim_Lusk]

Nice starting point. Here's what I'd do. Find a 73-76 V8 a-body that's all dinged up, but has all the brakes and suspension. Buy the parts car and swap the front suspension. Do the DC k-member conversion from the tech pages. Swap in the rear end, too.

The front suspension will likely need a rebuild. If you've never done one before it can be a bit intimidating, but we can walk you through it. The whole underside should be able to be done for under $1k. Manifolds are available new from any resto supplier or you can do the Hedman b-body header deal from the tech pages.

Now, for the last bit of advice. Get to know any members near you. Their support and help will get you through the parts you've never done before.

[Womanator]

My wife got her grandmothers 72 Valiant 4 door when she past away and ended up slapping in a 360 904 auto air car.Great parts runner.Good luck with your build.It sure suprises people on the street.will get a picture tomorrow.

[valiantguy]

Thanks everyone, keep it comin'... I'm taking copious notes!

~S

[NYrr496]

It's easy to have a sleeper today. Most young guys with Chevys, Mustangs and especially Hondas have absolutely no idea about Mopar stuff.  Don't chrome it up, use a factory looking air cleaner housing with dual snorkels and use resto stickers.  Use aluminum intake, water pump housing... As you can afford it, and paint it all engine color.

I had a 440 four barrel sticker on a chrome K&N air filter and my Performer RPM was painted engine color. ALL THE TIME the lesser informed thought it was a resto.  They learned what was what after it was too late.

[jamesdart]

im not sure where you are located but im sure a lot of the members here would be happy to help you out one way or another, find some that are nearby.

[valiantguy]

I'm in Wimberley, Texas, about 45 mins. southwest of Austin. Near San Marcos. An hour from San Antonio. I should get out & "make friends" but I just haven't had the time. My wife & I build guitars and so there's not been much of a budget and really we've just been getting the homestead set up. We both understand the relationship of my cars to my sanity however , and logic dictates if I'm kept sane we keep going... so here come the (albiet low-buck) car projects! I have a great wife...

Womanator that 72 is great. If I can get mine just that nice I'll drive it forever with no complaints. I don't have the budget for a show car, and I live down dirt roads. 

Jim, I'm going to take your advice & look around as soon as the picked clean 69 parts car (V8 but 7-1/4, drum brakes, etc.) is gone. I'll be happy to help anyone in whatever capacity I can too... I just need to start some serious wrenching, it's the only way to really learn something.

Here's the interior, it's a 67,000 mile car. Heck of a lot nicer than the outside after sitting out for so long...

[bill72dart]

Is that an eight-track player on the trans. tunnel?

[67Dart34dr0]

273 stroker!  I'd recommend a simply built smallblock. 340s are expensive but awesome. 318 or 273 with some head can be a screamer. Dual quads available for both. If they can take a six-pak, it shouldn't be an issue with some 470s or 500s. 727 is probably your best bet unless you will build a 904 yourself.

7-1/4 isn't too bad for a car more around "driving" than driving. Your budget would allow some wiggle room for the rear. I think a truly awesome sleeper is one that almost looks stock even under the hood. (why my 4 door has a smallblock)

[fourspeed]

Sweet 8-track!

[blackbetty]

Nice project! I love 4 doors.

[valiantguy]

Yep, that's an 8-track player. The interior is really, really clean.

Actually my budget is a catch-22; I already have a running 400 & 727. It's just going to cost me $$$ to get it in there "properly" with the upgrades to the... well everything. I do have a great '71 318 block... but it'd be $$$ to build & swap that...

Believe me, I've been back & forth on this for at least a year... build the 6! Drop in a 318! Build a 318! Go big block! Build the 6!...

Thinking of Jim's suggestion, if I found a running V8 parts car I could swap everything into this (K, brakes, rear, bars, etc.), including the motor & tranny, drive it, and then my logic would be to wait 'til I can afford the whole Schumaker kit w/easy headers and some head work & parts for the 400, then do it right, once.

A reality check on my time and skills though, tells me to just find something with a running slant six & 904 and swap that. Do a basic brake job, get some tires, and let it earn its keep while I gather parts for the transformation. Maybe, oh I don't know, throw up a garage or something meanwhile. 

Sleepers are best looking stock, yes, but I'm in Wimberley Texas, man... I could slap a 318 sticker on the 400 and nobody would know. There isn't a huge Mopar group out here, mostly Chevy. Chevy trucks. Chevy trucks with dually wheels & big ol' push bumpers. And gun racks.

Actually, the shock value is way better to have a total sleeper outside and pop the hood and have nothing but wall to wall valve covers, header tubes everywhere, plenty of aluminum, and a carb with secondaries big enough to put your head in. 

[signet]

i can turn that 69 grille into money

[67Dart34dr0]

Sleepers are best looking stock, yes, but I'm in Wimberley Texas, man... I could slap a 318 sticker on the 400 and nobody would know. There isn't a huge Mopar group out here, mostly Chevy. Chevy trucks. Chevy trucks with dually wheels & big ol' push bumpers. And gun racks.

Actually, the shock value is way better to have a total sleeper outside and pop the hood and have nothing but wall to wall valve covers, header tubes everywhere, plenty of aluminum, and a carb with secondaries big enough to put your head in. 

I'd say go with a stock V8 for now, it is likely the cheapest way out at this moment. It also gives good headway in the swap later. Try to find the biggest motor though and the best rear. This should be the determining factor on your build. The best thing about sleepers is they don't have to meet anyone's expectations like a screamer. You can give it up to half the cars, but the fact that the other half doesn't expect you to take them down makes it so great.

As far as the sleeper goes, to each his own. I would be just as fine with a stock appearing 383 in my four-door and the stuff to match as the route I've chosen to make the car look like a "pleasant family cruiser" with a bit of an attitude problem after 25. (the 3.23s don't kick it up quick on the low end and I already get 10 mpg, so...)

Having the V8 and building a V8 is a good combo. Ship (or haul) yours out for machining if you aren't comfortable doing it, wait for it to return and go to town doing wht you can. I think this should be your winning combo. Get a V8 car's stuff, get it running, maybe do some easy soup-ups with some of that budget (if your new rear will allow it), give the lady her ride and get ready for the fun to begin. This is also a good plan if you want it running for that week as a Daily Driver...

[valiantguy]

Signet... you mean this one? Heh, heh, heh. I don't know, the rust-free arrow-straight hood & under-grille piece would be useless without it. 

[fasttcars]

Signet... you mean this one? Heh, heh, heh. I don't know, the rust-free arrow-straight hood & under-grille piece would be useless without it. 

i know i love those grills