your opinion on crate engines

[olddart]

 I have spoke to a machine shop about my 440 core and I am getting prices in the $8000-$9000 dollar range to do the 500 stroker and aluminum heads. All I would supply would be the core engine. This would be his choice of aluminum heads, roller cam and valve train, all the crank, rods and pistons and intake. I am sure he includes the other misc internals and gaskets. I am confident he is using quality parts.
In comparison some of the crate engines I see seem to be better deals. They are always advertised as complete from pan to intake. Maybe getting the same cubic inch and power for 2k less. I have yet to speak to anyone about the quality of these kits. Are there some to avoid?
MuscleMotorsRacing.com has engines a bit lower in price and they have some good reports on the product. I have never dealt with a machine shop before and could use some guidance. Thanks in advance.

[Tiamat]

I think it really depends on the intended use of the engine.
I looked at the Mopar crate motors and they were too high in compression for a street motor on our pump gas down here in NZ.
I decided to build mine up myself and just get the machine shop to bore and deck the block.
I don't know if this was a good idea or not yet, should get the block back next week.
Still, its cost me around 8k US for the parts

[Thin White Duke]

Crate motors can be hit or miss.  Alot of time the specs aren't where they should be and the engines need a good cleaning inside.  As for you engine builder, don't trust him on what he will put in.  Alot of guys say you get the good rods, crank, etc and they pass off low quality parts.  Get it in writing before you give ANY money and have a contract in hand.  A good engine builder gets 1,000 to 1500 to put the motor together.

[olddart]

What do you think about the components that 440source sells? The stealth heads are so inexpensive it surprised my engine builder. His favorite pair are $1550 complete.

[SRT440DUSTER]

It can be done cheaper. Depends on the quality of the components and how much power u want to make.

[Tiamat]

440 Source sell some nice gear.
I think their cranks and rods are excellent quality
Heads are pretty reasonable for the price too.

[NYrr496]

My one and only experience with a crate engine was my buddy's Chevy ZZ4. He's been driving it daily for 7 years now. It runs great, makes plenty of power and saved us a ton of time when building the car.

The 440 Source stuff is way nicer than you'd expect from the prices. I haven't seen the heads up close, but the cranks, rods and pistons are nice.

[67Dart34dr0]

If you are going to let someone else build your engine, find the parts. The quote sounds off for the 440. Very off. I'd bet somewhere in the $5,000 range for parts tops.

[Cudadust]

A "machine shop" begs a few questions: Are they familiar with engine building procedures, Mopar engines, what is quality stuff, how much for labor, how much for parts? A quality engine builder will give you a listing of all costs associated with the build, the name and cost of eacxh apart used in the engine, an assurance that all of the parts are new or identify used or reconditioned parts and most important a time frame for completing the work and a warranty period where all repairs will be at their expense. Ask the machine shop for a written quote. Getting three written quotes for consideration is the best method and ask the shop for references, so you can check on the quality of work and any problems encountered by other customers. A crate engine is usally a used nengine rebuilt and sold by a major vendor.  Pep Boys , Kragen and Autozone sells rebuilt engines for a reasonable price with or without a core.  You can request upgrades for additional cost, I would check these out to get an idea on cost and they will act on your behalf in case of dispute.

[bOb shingler]

odddart, where are you located?

[fasttcars]

If you are going to let someone else build your engine, find the parts. The quote sounds off for the 440. Very off. I'd bet somewhere in the $5,000 range for parts tops.

no not really...just do a break down on the hole deal...and let's  not use the cheapest of the cheap parts either..

1.rotating assembly + balancer + flexplate                                                   2100$
2. cylinder heads + disasembly check, mild porting, adjust installed heights       1800$
3. hv oil pump, 7 quart pan,pick up,windage tray                                          360$
4.roller cam,lifters,bronze dist drive,roller springs                                             880$
5.gaskets,                                                                                               120$
6. roller rockers, pushrods                                                                          450$
7.machine work{tank mag,deck bore hone,align hone final wash,install cb}       750$
8.intake,                                                                                                 220$
9.valve covers                                                                                          110$
10.head bolts,main studs misc stainless bolts                                                 300$
11.misc..cb,frost plugs oil filter   etc                                                            100$
12. assembly{every clearence checked}                                                       700$

=                                                                                                          7890$     

and that's not getting into extras  like   main girdle, bushed lifter bores,external oiling system,porting intake,...etc

[fasttcars]

and if  a shop quotes you 5000 $ for the same build.....their just doing that to pull you in   and when the job is done i bet the bill will be more like 8000$ dollars anyways

[67Dart34dr0]

Sorry about that, I'm cheap.  I was considering inversting $750 in a drag car, but decided it was a bit much. 

[olddart]

and if  a shop quotes you 5000 $ for the same build.....their just doing that to pull you in   and when the job is done i bet the bill will be more like 8000$ dollars anyways

That is exactly what happened. But I expected that.

[speedymopars]

You could always do something like this too - http://www.performanceboats.com/html/forums/showthread.php?t=10088

[1969BlackFuryConv]

Have any of you guys had any dealings with http://www.maundmotorworks.com? I was thinking of getting a 440 from them.

[mopar_eric]

You could always do something like this too - http://www.performanceboats.com/html/forums/showthread.php?t=10088

I agree, I'd keep my eyes peeled for a good quality used motor. Building them new is not something you want to do on a shoestring budget.

Also, I would never put a crate motor in without tearing it down first to check it throroughly for anything out of spec. Once it goes , you end up being the loser on the deal. At least if you find something before you fire it you have a chance at an exchange or fix, but will most likely end up eating shipping if you don't buy local.

[67Dart34dr0]

From what I've heard a lot of crate motors have sub-par parts in them. Not that they are really bad, they just do not stand up to racing. Crate motors are built for a certain purpose to save money. I'm sure a racing crate motor would be great for that goal, but most MoPar crate motors are fairly mild and streetable. I would suggest if at all, getting a crate motor direct from a big performance parts source.

I do stand by my "get parts yourself" it may be cheaper, may be more expensive, but you'll know what you are getting 100%. You also may be able to work with your engine builder on finding the parts. He won't be afraid of making more money by installing quality parts I'd bet.