back half price

[VTI]

What is a fair price to back half a 69 dart? 10 point cage, narrowed dif, sub frame tied together, wheel tubs,springs and 4link,with replacement flooring to replace what was cut out. Fuel cell installed also. It would be mild steel mig welded. They said they could provide the aftermarket axels also if we wanted them to. the car will have a 500 in. low deck for starters.

[That One Guy]

when we did my dad's about 8 yrs ago, it cost about $3500 - 4000,  but that was from a cheap shop, and whit my dad doing a lot of work too.  I'm about to get mine done, but I'm doing the front too, so I can't really give you that accurate of a guess, but I'm thinking that $4000 should be close

[bOb shingler]

pick me, pick me, $40 per hour here and you supply the parts. where you located?

[DonnieLawson]

I am also getting ready to tub my 68 Cuda fastback, I live just south of Dayton Ohio.  I will need to go to a few shops for quotes  , I had a guy come to my house and is currently working on the price for me now. He is quoting a full tub and a mini tub job for me .  I'm still not sure which way I want to go .  Price is always a concern ,  but the quality of work is more important to me . I'm not talking show car work , but a car that drives and hooks good and straight and still looks good
Good luck on you car...... And if anyone in the Dayton - Cincinnati  Ohio area is interested in tubbing a 68 Cuda fastback  PM me 

[dd69a]

s&w quoted me around 10 grand to completely back half my car 69 dart    time for mini tubbs!

[Nitrous340dart]

If you're in California than that sounds about right.  Shopr rates are around $95-$120 an hour here...

[VTI]

We are in Denver Colorado. Car will keep original front for now. The price for mini tub would not be that much less. I have heard that it is easier to just cut it all out and start fresh. On onother note, has anyone used eurothane bushings for their 4link if you run it on the street? Had a person tell me about that and said he has not seen any difference at the track once he dialed in his car. Said it rode better with less wear and tear on the heim joints.

[smitty72]

im thinking more like 6-7k for a good quality job

[73swinger]

im thinking more like 6-7k for a good quality job

 you can buy a pretty nice welder and some lessons/classes for alot less. and the satisfaction at the end is tenfold

[Womanator]

Bob if I lived in Florida I would definately have you do it for me.marv

[krabysniper]

im thinking more like 6-7k for a good quality job

 you can buy a pretty nice welder and some lessons/classes for alot less. and the satisfaction at the end is tenfold

Sure you can take welding lessons, for that matter you dont need lessons, just buy a welder and start welding, you'll figure it out. Then guys like myself (who have lots of expierence building chasis, back-halfing, etc) can get ya to pay couple grand more to tear out and fix what you couldn't get right the first time because novice noob welder/chasis builder wanna be's are UN-EXPIERENCED. There is an expensive learning curve to any GOOD welding and when it comes to something that may need to save your life, I personaly don't believe spending thousands of dollars and hundreds if not thousands of man hours learning and making critical mistakes, is the way. Not to say that everyone isn't a noob at some point or other, but not EVERYONE is cut out to be a welder/chasis builder and I have personally fixed quite a few "noob" jobs, I always charge WAY WAY more when someone else tries first and fails, making more work for me.

But sure, go ahead and do it, you may even try a second time in the future, making all that time and money WELL SPENT, not.

As far as cost, just make sure whoever you get to do the job LAYS IT OUT IN BLACK AND WHITE on PAPAER for you. Don't go with a verbal "I'll do this that and the other thing" and then think you'll be able to bitch about it later, get it in writing with details layed out in writing, that way you'll have something to work with if the job gets butched and foobarred (which if it's detailed in writting will rarely occur).

[Womanator]

Ok here's my foot in the mouth tirade for the week.

But to charge $2000 to remove roll cage and back half?20 hrs to do this?

I thought this was supposed to be a hobby?

If you shop around you can find people who will do work on your car for a decent price.

Last major chassis work I had done was to the 67 Dart that I  built for a freind because he lost his ride and he's a great racer.Work done 2 yrs ago. I still own this car and it's a on going project

What was done.
Mini tubed
Narrowed rearend included axels and green bearings
Lowering blocks welded to rear.best 60 ft times on hoosiers 1.59
Moved springs to frame rails
7 point rollbar with swingout doorbar
Mounted seat
Leveled engine and welded washers on spool  mounts
Replaced steering joint with flaming river joint for header clearance for the tti's
Installed fiberglass hood
Installed fuel system taken off anther car but fitted to this Dart

All this for the whopping price of $2950.2 years before he did another Dart a 68 but with a 10 point cage for $3150.
Just so you don't think this guys a flake-National NHRA record holder in his 4 cylinder Escort that he's got best engeenered at national event.Most don't even know that they give that award out at each event.

LIke I said at the start this is my tiraid for us hobbiest who don't have Pro Money and just want to have a fun hobby.If it wasn't for the $2000 remark this post wouldn't even be here

[Joe-Dokes]

I've built a number of dune buggies over the years, and have always done the fabrication work myself.  Yet, have never done the welding.  That is going to change with my Dart. 

Here are a couple of observations.

1. Anyone can call themselves a professional.  That doesn't mean they are going to do their best work on your project.  I worked across the street from a iron fence fabricator.  The guy welded all day long.  Quality of the welds? Average, not great, not particularly pretty but structurally sound.  His race car (an early 70s Nova) had solid fab work but it looked sloppy. 

2. No one will care as much about the car as you do.  Now for some tasks that are time limited (like spraying paint) it may be best to farm it out.  But for most tasks you can keep doing it until you get it right.  Thus, the quality of your final work will be determined by your amount of OCD. Simply put, if the weld looks bad grind it out and start over.  To put this in perspective, I set up the suspension on my Dad's dunebuggy. He said, "just get it on wheels and then I'll take it Hall and have him dial it in."  Well I took my time, measured everything ten times, got out my book and checked things that I could.  Long story, short, he took the car in, Rod Hall had a guy look at the car, check my measurements and declared that the car was closer than he normally gets his off road cars.  In a word perfect.  Now truth be told, it probably took me ten times longer but the satisfaction and the knowledge that it was done right is worth the time.

3. Know your limits, it might be time, it might be skill.  Thus, when faces with the prospect of buying a bunch of expensive tools to rebuild my transaxle, I farmed it out. 

Regards

Joe Dokes

[bOb shingler]

im thinking more like 6-7k for a good quality job

 you can buy a pretty nice welder and some lessons/classes for alot less. and the satisfaction at the end is tenfold

Sure you can take welding lessons, for that matter you dont need lessons, just buy a welder and start welding, you'll figure it out. Then guys like myself (who have lots of expierence building chasis, back-halfing, etc) can get ya to pay couple grand more to tear out and fix what you couldn't get right the first time because novice noob welder/chasis builder wanna be's are UN-EXPIERENCED. There is an expensive learning curve to any GOOD welding and when it comes to something that may need to save your life, I personaly don't believe spending thousands of dollars and hundreds if not thousands of man hours learning and making critical mistakes, is the way. Not to say that everyone isn't a noob at some point or other, but not EVERYONE is cut out to be a welder/chasis builder and I have personally fixed quite a few "noob" jobs, I always charge WAY WAY more when someone else tries first and fails, making more work for me.

But sure, go ahead and do it, you may even try a second time in the future, making all that time and money WELL SPENT, not.

As far as cost, just make sure whoever you get to do the job LAYS IT OUT IN BLACK AND WHITE on PAPAER for you. Don't go with a verbal "I'll do this that and the other thing" and then think you'll be able to bitch about it later, get it in writing with details layed out in writing, that way you'll have something to work with if the job gets butched and foobarred (which if it's detailed in writting will rarely occur).

  very interesting, may i ask how you got started in your profession and welding?

[smitty72]

I know how to weld did take a class a long time ago, my car is not back halfed but has the springs moved in and that kind of stuff. I could have done the work but I just felt more comfortable having a professional chassis chop do theat work. with that said I have done all hte other welding on hte car quarters floors and such. I think that alot opf this is more up to your comfort level.

[krabysniper]

very interesting, may i ask how you got started in your profession and welding?

You may.

I grew up around it. My ole man had race cars (floppers, door cars, built altereds for friends, etc) and a machine shop, when I was a kid. His dad, my grandfather, had LOTS of old cars that he restored (the whole deal, by himself with a little help from me here and there), grew up around farms for the most part and lived only a couple miles from the local dragstrip, anyone from a farming background understands that all by itself.  Navy for a few years, then went to college for a bunch more. After all that I still went back and took some tech schooling for welding just to have the "book smarts" to go with the real world expierence I had had in welding (having grown up around a machine shop I had done many forms of brazing, soldering, gas torch welding, wire feed (MIG), stick, stud welding, spot welding). Worked building and repairing race cars for a while after tech school, mostly High Freq TIG welding aluminum and chromemoly and some MIG and also in structural steel fab (lots of stainless steel pressure vessels, tanks, structural beams etc.) and farm implement fab/welding. Still build cars now and again (working on a little fox body for a guy currently).

 I have NEVER let a vehicle leave my presence unless I was certain, beyond doubt, that a cage I welded will do it's job. I have seen a lot of stuff that made we scratch my head and wonder "What The F*** were they thinking?"

Whats your life worth to you? You can pay hourly, and get an hourly product, or you can pay more, and get more in the end, and yes if your not careful you can get taken to the cleaners. 

Like I said, we were all noobs at one time and I in no way mean to imply I am the know all end all of anything. Just saying it isn't for everyone and voicing my thoughts on the subject of "purchasing equipment and doing it yourself". Buying a welder is only a small portion of the tools you need to do a "good" job. Expierence has to be purchased, one way or the other, to do it right.

[bOb shingler]

thanks for your reply. i've always wanted to take a course in welding especially tig welding.

[loiq]

So far I've spent between $200-300 mini tubbing my Valiant. Mostly fab work. If I bought SS springs, shocks, axles and had the diff built I'd have around $1500 in it maybe? Of course, then you need wheels and tires.

[rharveysr]

We have done ALL the work on Rickey's 68...and still working on it. This project so far includes the back half with ladder bars and coil overs,frame connectors and a 14 point cage that we bent up ourselves. I do the design,cut and fitment and my son does all the welding. If you decide to do it your self...do a lot of research and measure and measure and measure...If we were to do it for someone else...it would cost them approx. $3500 plus materials. As you can see in my signature...a Dana 60 and 18.5" tires sure looks nice under there...

Rick and Rickey Jr.
R&R Racing Enterprises Inc

[krabysniper]

thanks for your reply. i've always wanted to take a course in welding especially tig welding.

I will say this, untill I took the year of tech, I was a pretty good at it, but learning the dynamics of whats really happening when your laying a bead and learning about heat affected zones, carbon or moloy migration, and the actual changes on the metalurgical side of things really opened my eyes. It was money well spent, even if a lot of what they had us do was just a re-run for me.

As far as TIG goes, If you are part artist, part scientist, and part welder, you'll do well. It is as much an art as it is a science and takes a lot of practice to get right becuase if you use a foot control, like I did , then you need to coordinate three of your limbs to work together and chromemoloy is very exspensive, how good you want to be? It is my most favorite form of welding though. Only welding I have ever been able to do in a T shirt and not end up with burns all over (lotsa a sunblock helps with preventing flash burns).

[jackie]

a few years back i wanted to backhalf my challenger. i could not spend the $3500.00 at that time,to have it done. so i went to a racecar shop and talked to the guy, hung out there some. i told him what i wanted, and bought all of my parts from him. he makes all of the frame rails, 4- link brackets and bars. i told him when i got done that i would let him make the roll bars, and do the alum. work.. i watched them do several cars. he works on street cars all the way up to pro- cars. he has even done monster trucks and rails.. now i am not a beginner welder, if you are this is NOT the place to start. i cut it all out ,took my time ,ask questions and went to it. saved a lot of money, learned a lot and it turned out great.. now when i got done i took my car to the race shop and for $1800.00 more he made me a roll bar, drive shaft loop , and put in tubs and done all of the alum. work, rear wing incl. now this was the only way that i could have got this done, and i am glad i did it..

[Womanator]

Sharp looking car

[therocks]

Im not a fabricator or welder.My nuddy is.It amases me how he can measure stuff or look at it and build something.He started working on farm stuff then in the army he welded and did fab work.When he lays a weld you usually dont even have to clean it up.Just like watching him use his lathes.I always ask him You couldnt make this could you.He always answers Well of course I can.My hats off to the welders and fabricators.Ive seen some nice work on here.Rocky

[doug 371]

a few years back i wanted to backhalf my challenger. i could not spend the $3500.00 at that time,to have it done. so i went to a racecar shop and talked to the guy, hung out there some. i told him what i wanted, and bought all of my parts from him. he makes all of the frame rails, 4- link brackets and bars. i told him when i got done that i would let him make the roll bars, and do the alum. work.. i watched them do several cars. he works on street cars all the way up to pro- cars. he has even done monster trucks and rails.. now i am not a beginner welder, if you are this is NOT the place to start. i cut it all out ,took my time ,ask questions and went to it. saved a lot of money, learned a lot and it turned out great.. now when i got done i took my car to the race shop and for $1800.00 more he made me a roll bar, drive shaft loop , and put in tubs and done all of the alum. work, rear wing incl. now this was the only way that i could have got this done, and i am glad i did it..

looks great jackie

[jackie]

thanks a lot guys!!