499 stroker with Indy Ez

[darth720]

 I am really swinging towards the Indy Ez heads ported by Hughes . I believe its there Stage 2 port with their deep ported Victor intake.

  The engine is 499 cu in and would be 11.7 comp with around a 600 lift cam. I was thinking of going mech flat tappet with Shubeck lifters.

[fasttcars]

if your going to spend all that money on lifters why not just go roller and pick up even more hp

[ksdartguy]

 
Im running Chet Herbert rollers at $200. The cam is a little higher, but Herbert can grind that for $220,
Only way to go,at least only way I will go. Too much trouble with flat tappets and oil for me.
Rick

[Crazy68Dart]

I would probably not have Hughes do the porting.  You can get the castings through them if you want but look at someone else to do the work.

[fasttcars]

Too much trouble with flat tappets and oil for me.
Rick

the Schubeck lifters do solve any wipe out problems with their ceramic base design and are reusable from cam to cam..but their also 640$

[andyf]

You might check with Jeff at Modern Cylinder Head.  Modern is an Indy dealer and they have some excellent CNC porting packages available.  I run EZ heads that I got from Modern on my 505 motor and they make really good power.

[speedymopars]

Too much trouble with flat tappets and oil for me.
Rick

the Schubeck lifters do solve any wipe out problems with their ceramic base design and are reusable from cam to cam..but their also 640$

Yep - I can buy a solid roller cam, lifters and springs for just the cost of the schubek lifters...

most people who don't want to run a roller say it is due to the frequent adjustments - which is totally false. Pretty much set and forget IMHO (though I always check during my normal tune ups as a precaution) They are never off unless a problem has developed.

[darth720]

The car will be dual purpose.  I have seen and heard horror stories of rollers seizing up and destroying the engine. The Schubeck flat tappet lifters dont need a break in and well of what I read they dont wear out and you can interchange them from cam to cam . Their rollers look really nice also. But even more money . A good chyrsler ground mech cam with fast lift rates and 1.6 rockers And Shubeck lifters would be close to a roller power with way less valve spring pressure . Yes / No ?
Do you guys street drive your rollers?
I dont want a set of crappy lifters Mechanical or Roller runing my day .

[NYrr496]

I used to drive my 440 4 speed Charger EVERY day.  It had a Comp 288R street roller. I had zero problems, it did not require constant attention, it made TONS of power.

[andyf]

Do you already have the Schubeck lifters?  If you don't have a set then you might be out of luck.  I think Schubeck stopped selling those lifters some time back.  People were saying a couple of years ago that they couldn't get lifters anymore from Schubeck.

[ksdartguy]

The car will be dual purpose.  I have seen and heard horror stories of rollers seizing up and destroying the engine. The Schubeck flat tappet lifters dont need a break in and well of what I read they dont wear out and you can interchange them from cam to cam . Their rollers look really nice also. But even more money . A good chyrsler ground mech cam with fast lift rates and 1.6 rockers And Shubeck lifters would be close to a roller power with way less valve spring pressure . Yes / No ?
Do you guys street drive your rollers?
I dont want a set of crappy lifters Mechanical or Roller runing my day .

Ive run mine (roller cam)for a couple years. More street than strip. .686/.696L
Comp 919 springs @ 195 on seat. Idles fine @ 850, adjusted valves once since
I broke in motor.

Nothing wrong with the Herbert stuff. Alot of guys here on the site using their stuff.

Rick

[speedymopars]

The duster with the 440 - 98% street - solid roller cam with .660 lift - no speedo but 15 years of driving including a 4 year stretch where that was my daily driver.
The duster with the 528 - so far 100% street solid roller cam with .700 lift
The boat with a 452 - 100% non race (though marine app) - Solid roller cam with .606 lift
My Dodge truck 5.9 - 100% street or off road - hyd roller cam for 80K.

Every factory pushrod motor since the 80's - Hyd roller cam. A hyd roller lifter is the exact same thing as a solid roller, except it has a spring and a plunger to take up slack in the valvetrain.

In all fairness, I did have a bad lifter one time in the 90's that did wipe out my motor though.

[NYrr496]

The ONLY roller lifter I ever saw fail was in a Waukesha generator set.  The lifter retainer failed, allowing the lifter to rotate and it ate the lobe. I removed the cam, got the lobe welded ( I belive by Chet Herbert, this was MANY years ago.) bought a new lifter and retainer and this thing has been in service for twenty more years.

[moparteacher]

Shubeck is no longer in buisiness. Smith Machine now manufactures the solid and hydraulic flat tappet ceramic lifters. I don't know if the Schubeck encased roller lifter is still available. The shop is called "SM" for Smith Machine. The lifters are $720a set, $640 if you purchase a Racer Brown cam at the same time.

I purchased mine from 4secondsflat.com. They arrived two days ago. I'm building a 383 for stock eleiminator.

My last engine, a roller 383 in a 68 Barracuda, had a custom Chet Herbert grind and his USA made roller lifters. The roller lifters are seriously heavy duty. It was a daily driver until I sold it at MATS in 07'. I put 10k miles on it with one valve lash check and no needed adjustment. I'll never run a hydraulic in a street or strip car again unless the class rules require it.

A word of caution about the ceramic "SM" lifters, they run very little lash. If the lash opens up and the lifters base smacks the lobe ramp with high spring pressure and high rpm they are known to shatter and fail with catastrophic results, the same as a roller lifter failing. The ceramic lifters require diligence in maintaining the correct lash.

BTW. It takes longer to change the spark plugs on a 440 than to adjust the valves. 

[ksdartguy]

The only roller I saw fail was due to a poor setup job on adjustable rockers,
that allowed the pushrods to hit the intake port runners and the flexing pushrod bent.
This let the roller push up and the link bar disconnected and roller turned sidways.

For the cost of Herberts, and the way oil has changed,I will not go back to flat tappets.
Not to mention performance improvements.

All the new engines produced (that I know of) use roller cams. Why?

[darth720]

Hi.
   How about I run the Comp drag race roller on the dual purpose car. Not alot of street use maybe a 1000 to 2000 miles in a year.

MECHANICAL ROLLER # 23-706-95 - RX296R-8
.026 .028
Adv. Dur.296 303         263 270 @ .050
 4000 to 6500 rpm
.650 .651  lift      108º
 Three-Bolt
  Best all around  bracket or Super Street cam. Best in light to
medium weight car with 11:1 comp, 4200+
stall in 440, 4500+ stall in 383.

The 499 should have 11.7 comp ratio with the Ez heads- 295 cc intake port about 355 cfm @ .700 lift
 I have 4.10 gears and a Neil chance 4000 stall.  The car and driver is around 3500 lbs

Whats the difference between the street roller and drag roller?
Thanks !

[fasttcars]

the street rollers profiles aren't so agressive so their not as hard on valvetrain and etc....

[andyf]

The Comp XR292R street roller cam would be good for a 500 inch motor with the EZ heads.  I just finished up some dyno testing using a Comp street roller in a 505 Mopar with the new Super Victor intake.  It made about 680 hp with a lumpy idle.  Go one step smaller on the cam and it would drop a little power but be nice and easy to live with.

[NYrr496]

Andy, which street roller made that number in the 505?

[ksdartguy]

XR292, but I like the looks of the RX296R-8
Its very close to my crower @ 263/270@ .050, mine is 262/266 and works great in my 499.
Ive got a tad more lift, so its a wash.

Rick

[andyf]

Andy, which street roller made that number in the 505?

I was using a custom street roller with lobes 4877/4878 on 108 installed at 106.  Basically a XR298R if it was in the catalog so it was one step larger than the XR292.

My 505 has the Mancini Racing CNC ported heads on it (Mopar Performance heads with straight plugs).  These are standard port heads so they are small on a 500 inch motor.  Super Victor intake, Dominator, 12.5 compression ratio and 2 inch headers.  Basically a street/strip combo, something you would drive a bit on the street and drive back and forth to the track.  The Dominator probably isn't a requirement at this power level, a big Holley such as a 850 DP or a 1000 HP would probably work just as well.

I'm going to put the EZ heads back on this shortblock with the same street roller cam to see what the difference is.  I think it will pick up 30 or 40 hp with the bigger EZ heads since they flow better.  That would put this combo at 725 hp or so and it would still be okay to drive on the street as long as you had a manual tranny or a high stall converter.