Pilot Bushing

[67dartgt]

Hey Everyone....Slated for this coming winter's project is a new transmission for the dart. I would really really love to have a 4 speed car, and currently have everything except for the 833 and drive shaft for it. Before I continue the investment towards a 4 speed, I was curious about the pilot bushing. I read somewhere else that some cranks will not have a place for the pilot bushing. Is this true? if it is true, am I pretty  much screwed? My engine only has a thousand miles on it, so until something major happens to it, it won't be coming back out of the car.

Am I stuck with an automatic if my crank does not have the appropriate place for a pilot bushing?

- Don

[Jim_Lusk]

No, but you may have some work to do. Cranks came three ways, drilled/reamed for the pilot bushing, drilled/not reamed for the pilot bushing, not drilled deep enough. All cranks will accept the newer Dakota pilot bearing that fits into the convertor hub of the crank (see http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/clutch/1.html). If you have the crank that is not drilled deep enough you can drill it out, but it WILL beat you up and you WILL have very sharp metal cuttings. You can also shorten the snout on the input chaft of the trans. It won't hurt naything,but that trans won't work properly with a stock bushing any more. I have drilled out two cranks and it's not too bad, but like said it will beat you up a bit.

[NYrr496]

There were automatic and four speed cranks, meaning the four speed cranks were finish honed to accept a bushing.  I was given an automatic crank once and didn't realize it until I already had the engine assembled.  There was NO WAY I was converting my 4 speed car to an automatic for this, so I took the bushing, ground it slightly and honed the end of the crank slightly. I checked it for runout and ran it that way for a long time. Never gave me any trouble.

[67dartgt]

No, but you may have some work to do. Cranks came three ways, drilled/reamed for the pilot bushing, drilled/not reamed for the pilot bushing, not drilled deep enough. All cranks will accept the newer Dakota pilot bearing that fits into the convertor hub of the crank (see http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/clutch/1.html). If you have the crank that is not drilled deep enough you can drill it out, but it WILL beat you up and you WILL have very sharp metal cuttings. You can also shorten the snout on the input chaft of the trans. It won't hurt naything,but that trans won't work properly with a stock bushing any more. I have drilled out two cranks and it's not too bad, but like said it will beat you up a bit.

Awesome. Thanks for the info! So, if my crank is not drilled for the pilot bushing, or not drilled enough, I can just use the newer dakota bushing without any crank mods? And that will work for the 833 input shaft? Also, I forgot to say that the motor is a cast crank 360. Not a BB. Does that matter?

Thanks guys for your responses, by the way! 

[Jim_Lusk]

Doesn't matter what engine. If the crank is not drilled deep enough you will have to do something. Either drill out the crank or cut th einput shaft. Even though it is more work to drill the crank I prefer that method.

[d55dave]

There is also a needle type bearing that presses into the area of the crank that centers the torque converter. There is a picture and I think part number for it in the 4 speed tech section. I can dig up the mopar part number if you need it - it cost aout $20 from the dealership. I believe all cranks are drilled with a pilot hole, too small for the pilot bushing so you do not need to cut off the snout of the input shaft, but I could be wrong. At least this is how my aftermarket 408 crank and stock 360 crank are. The bearing works great, I would highly recomend it over drilling the crank.

My 2 cents

[Jim_Lusk]

The roller bearing info is posted above and some cranks are not drilled deep enough for the input shaft. Found this out the hard way on two 383s.

[67dartgt]

  Everyone!

that at least gives me the info that I needed, which is that I can still do it without taking the crank out. thanks guys! Love the 4 speed!

[NYrr496]

This post made me realize I've never driven a Mopar with an automatic.

[bOb shingler]

i trust you purchased the correctly balanced flywheel for your cast crank motor.

[Bill_Reilly]

Stupid me. I just measured the custom-made pilot bearings that I got for the viper 6spds - it's the same size input shaft as a stock 4-spd, which means the dakota bearing should be a perfect fit without the custom sleeve. The dak bearing doesnt look to have an inner race on it - I wonder if the 6spd shaft is hard enough. I guess it should be by default, being an input shaft...

[67dartgt]

i trust you purchased the correctly balanced flywheel for your cast crank motor.

That I don't know, but will be watching for closely. I have a flywheel that came with all of my parts in a trade, but without any obvious markings, I'll probably be purchasing one so that I know it's the correct wheel. I remember making sure that I got a neutral balance TQ converter because the motor is internally balanced, so I imagine I'm going to have to play a similar game with the flywheel when it comes time.

[268darts]

If your motor is internal balanced you should be able to use a std flywheel. If it's external balanced someone here should have one. Post on the parts wanted. Summit sells a new 360 flywheel for around $450, or you can get one on Ebay, maybe even find one at the JY. I understand that all LA cranks were drilled and reamed. I have not seen one that isn't. Cast BB cranks were supposed to have had some kinda problem with being too porus, and would seep oil through the drilled hole. I think that is why some BB cranks are not drilled.

[Jim_Lusk]

If your motor is internal balanced you should be able to use a std flywheel. If it's external balanced someone here should have one. Post on the parts wanted. Summit sells a new 360 flywheel for around $450, or you can get one on Ebay, maybe even find one at the JY. I understand that all LA cranks were drilled and reamed. I have not seen one that isn't. Cast BB cranks were supposed to have had some kinda problem with being too porus, and would seep oil through the drilled hole. I think that is why some BB cranks are not drilled.

Both of mine were forged.

[Winter]

There is a smaller o.d pilot bushing, with the standard i.d. available @ a brake and clutch rebuilder Sorry, I can't find the # now but I have posted this info on other sites. I have a 318-3 truck engine with the tiny hole, and the right # , one tapped in. I have a 833 NP 4 speed from a 64 Charger with flange output, I used a slip spline,  instead of the Pot-joint, that was supplied by Drive line Service, the u-joints have never worn out either. 

[lemondana]

If you have a crank that is drilled but not finished reamed then NAPA has a pilot bushing for you. It is a BALKAMP part number-  615-1033 at a cost of $1.42. Someone awhile back said they were discontinued but I purchased one  April 14 of this year, had to order it though. The guy in the NAPA store didn't even know they had anything like that.  I think in their book it is called an automatic crank conversion bushing.  Much cheaper than a roller bearing I suppose.  Myron 

[chryco]

I went from a auto to a 4 spd. in my 69 Bee' . I had a complete 68 Sport Satellite "donor "car was surprisingly easy and way more fun to drive. My pilot bushing was MOTR and I shortenned the input accordingly . That was around 20 years ago now , still no problems and runs great.
  Chryco