Is this possible and will it work?

[zpsull01]

I am building a 72 Duster with a 440 and I am trying to make the engine bay look as clean as possible. I'm going with a non-ac manual steering setup and I would like to completely do away with the drive belt. I had planned on going with electric fans and an electric water pump, so that just leaves the alternator and crank pulleys. What if I took the same type of drive system for the electric water pumps and used it on the alternator but mounted the whole assembly in the trunk with the battery and run it on a switched system. Would this work? I figure that I could use a large pulley on the motor and a small one on the alternator to give me a better geared ratio.

[satellite65]

If you can make it work your best bet would be to:

A) Keep your mouth shut and do not tell a soul.
B) IMMEDIATELY contact the U.S. patent office and apply.

To the best of my knowledge perpetual motion is a physical impossibility. If you can get it to work you are about to become a VERY wealthy individual.

Good luck.

[GTS225]

Ultimately, no.......generally, power in equals power out, so whatever electrical power would be required to run the alternator under full load would be burned up by that 12vdc motor spinning it.  Add to that the fact that we (humans) can't build anything that will give 100% efficiency, and you get a certain amount of energy loss in the form of heat and other deficiencies of the drive system.

I've looked into trying to find a good 12vdc motor to run a belt-drive water pump setup, and came to the conclusion that I can buy a completely new Moroso or Mr. Gasket universal kit for the amount a ball bearing, 12vdc motor would cost me.

But I applaud your thought processes, and I don't want to tell you not to try.  Maybe you can find something I didn't.

You could belt drive it off the drive shaft......some hot rodders do that under T-buckets and model A's, where space is at a premium.

Roger

[Jim_Lusk]

No, it won't work because, in essence you've described a perpetual motion machine. In order to make enough electrical power to run all systems it takes a little bit of engine horsepower. Eventually you will run out of battery power.

[zpsull01]

Thanks for all your input but I really think that I am going to give this a shot. When you think about it, many people with electric water pumps allow them to run for a moment or so before and after they start the engine to begin to turn the alternator. If I use proper pulleys to give me the most efficient outcome along with a deep cycle battery and possibly a capacitor, it might just work. And if I have to charge the battery now and then I feel that it would be worth it. I'm planning on getting this thing running pretty soon but it won't see any road time out of the neighborhood for a good while so this would be the perfect way to test it too.

And thanks for the info on the driveshaft driven units. I'll look into that.

[That One Guy]

I have been thinking about doing this for a while now, cuz I don't want the extra drag on my racing motor, it's all in the pulleys you use, give me a day or so and I can figure it out for you if you want
I told my dad about it about a month ago

[west]

you guys aren't thinking clearly
all you need to do is install a windmill on the roof and start on a hill

[NYrr496]

It isn't going to work. Just get a teeny little alternator and use a low mount kit from Magnum Force or someone like that that specializes in drag race applications.

If the car becomes troublesome, what will be the fun in using it?

[satellite65]

Think about it.
You're going to use a battery, to power a motor, to drive an alternator, to charge the battery.
Why even bother with the alternator? Just power the cars entire electrical system directly from the battery.
Carry a battery charger in the trunk and never stray too far from a 110V power source.
Or better yet, you can get a 12V - 110V inverter, mount it somwhere in the car and when the battery goes dead
plug the charger into it to charge the batte........Oh wait, that won't work either.

Seriously, it's not going to work. Lots of drag cars (track only) run without an alternator. They run for very brief periods
of time then get re-charged back in the pits. Some circle track cars drive an alternator from the driveshaft. I've never seen
this done on a street driven car before so I can't say how well it will work.

If you're concerned about cosmetics, there are some very nice looking alternator, mounting bracket, and drive setups on
the market. Check out March Performance. A bit pricy but nice stuff.

[75Dart440]

I've seen cars that had an alternator driven off of the drive shaft.  Gear it correctly and I suppose it could work, but running around town would kill a battery in a hurry!!  I may just go nuclear power in the near future.  Having a terrible time sourcing P-238 right now.  Harbor freight is completely out of stock!   

[satellite65]

I've seen cars that had an alternator driven off of the drive shaft.  Gear it correctly and I suppose it could work, but running around town would kill a battery in a hurry!!  I may just go nuclear power in the near future.  Having a terrible time sourcing P-238 right now.  Harbor freight is completely out of stock!   

Yeah. I just cleaned them out. I'm kinda pissed though. I need this stuff A.S.A.P. but they won't airfreight it because of stupid hazmat regulations. Now I have to wait 5-7 business days for U.P.S. Ground. It's not all that bad though, Harbor Freight assured me that the U.P.S. girl was going to personally deliver it. 

[satellite65]

Zpsull01,

First, please accept my appologies for having a little fun at your expense. All kidding aside, save yourself a lot of aggravation (and $$$ too) and try to find a better way to tidy up your engine compartment. An alternator requires a certain amount of energy to drive it. The amount of energy required goes up as the speed increases or load is applied. The electric motor that you would need to drive it would use more electrical energy than the alternator is capable of putting out. Then you have an ignition system, electric water pump, electric fans, etc. etc. all consuming electricity. It's kind of hard to explain in a forum thread. If you happen to know anyone with an electrical engineering backround ask them to explain it in more detail.

Steve

[wrflyer]

 how about a solar panel formed like a spoiler on the trunk lid?

[bwells]

How about a small generator in the trunk, with a battery charger plugged into that.  Hard-wire it to a battery charger and run a third exhaust pipe and plumb a line to the gas tank.  You could wire the generator up to kick on when the battery gets low.  It'd definitely be unique 

[abqdart]

I say give it a try. It would be worth the personal experience if it did not work. It would be priceless if it did work! Good luck. I like the capacitor idea, not so sure about the deep cycle battery though. Let us know how it turns out. Could be a Big Block Dart first!

[NYrr496]

how about a solar panel formed like a spoiler on the trunk lid?

This is the best idea yet.

[zpsull01]

I say give it a try. It would be worth the personal experience if it did not work. It would be priceless if it did work! Good luck. I like the capacitor idea, not so sure about the deep cycle battery though. Let us know how it turns out. Could be a Big Block Dart first!

Yea this is the only reason I really want to try this. I'm one of those people who believes it will happen until I prove myself wrong. I basically have everything to do it, so if it doesn't work I'm not really out anything but a couple of hours of my time.

And no hard feelings with the jokes. I know this is a far out there concept and one hell of a long shot. But besides either allowing a belt to turn it off the engine or off the driveshaft is there any other way to properly set one up?

[abqdart]

I'm the same way. The only problem I could for see with running it off the drive shaft would be stop and go traffic.

[Bill_Reilly]

Someone already has the patent on this(I met him a few years ago), but I always wanted to do it. A hydraulic pump is really small - low-mount it close to the crank pulley so it's kind of hidden.  Then build a small box in the trunk with your accessories belt-driven by a hydraulic motor.
Obviously this isn't for a drag car, more for street rides with all the goodies. You could have every accessory and only one tiny belt on the engine. It will still use as much engine power, it's only a visual improvement. Although weight distribution would improve some too.

[flyboy01]

If you can make it work your best bet would be to:

A) Keep your mouth shut and do not tell a soul.
B) IMMEDIATELY contact the U.S. patent office and apply.

To the best of my knowledge perpetual motion is a physical impossibility. If you can get it to work you are about to become a VERY wealthy individual.

Good luck.

............and you would save the world.

[guzzimike]

You guys are nuts...seriuosly 

All you need is to install a set of bycycle pedals, powering a generator.

Hook this up to a rectifier, feeding through a voltage regulator charging the battery...

Or if you want to simplify the system, drop the Voltage Regulator and simply pedal faster when he headlights dim..

Or if you wanna take a break from pedaling your ass off all the time, install a Dynamo to run off of one of the tires as they spin going down the street...the parasitic drag would be insignificant.


I will be working on my acceptance speech for the Nobel Piece Prize at first light.

[MVRCorp]

Why not get an inverter, mount it in the trunk and hook it up to the battery then plug in a battery charger and hook it up to the battery. 

[Jim_Lusk]

Why not get an inverter, mount it in the trunk and hook it up to the battery then plug in a battery charger and hook it up to the battery.

Yeah, that's the ticket..............

[eldubb440]

all you need is a really long extension cord.........or maybe a sail........wait, i have another.........

[satellite65]

Why not get an inverter, mount it in the trunk and hook it up to the battery then plug in a battery charger and hook it up to the battery. 

I mentioned that before. I'm not 100% sure it would work but it's DEFINATELY worth a shot! (of tequilla,that is).

[jackie]

you guys think way too hard, take off the starter,and hook up a rope!!----------but would not it be easier to hook up the alt.

[smitty72]

seriously, are you just trying to get a cleaner look in the engine compartment? I've seen a car that had a custom pulley mated to the yoke on the rear and had the alt. mounted on top of the rear. put it right near your battery and no one will see it. gotta have a real small belt

[rharveysr]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yJJrjDI5xSQ

Here you go!

Rick

[MVRCorp]

 

[NYrr496]

That's AWESOME. That guy rules.