Iron Works copied RMS suspension?

[RaisinBran]

I saw a newer Mopar mag that had an article about a new company called Iron Works and the rear suspension they are manufacturing that looks identical to Bill's.  What up with that who cpoied who?

[abodyjoe]

what magazine and what page #?


  wouldn't suprise me. hell control freak copied the alter-k.

[Bill_Reilly]

Read the first few paragraphs of the article....

[RaisinBran]

I seen it at the dealership.  I guess I looked at pix more than read.  So whats the scoop?

P.S. Bill did you ever get my e-mail about needing some of the SSA Dart wheel opening templates?

[abodyjoe]

Read the first few paragraphs of the article....

what magazine and what page number?

[Bill_Reilly]

It was last months or the month before mopar muscle - the article on the black 67GTX.

...I don't think I got your template email - either that or I lost it in the Carlisle frenzy - I take it you need one?

[Bakaruda]

I ran a search with no luck on finding it.

[Bill_Reilly]

August '08 mopar muscle - "Multi-link rear suspension" pg18

[abodyjoe]

oh that is mostly your kit. they just made the cross member ..  that one?

[Bill_Reilly]

Yea that one.

[RaisinBran]

No it wasn't Mopar Muscle it was a magazine called "Mopar"  I believe they only come to Dodge Dealerships? I am pretty sure that it said he was manufacturing the suspension, and the pix looked just like your kit?

[abodyjoe]

No it wasn't Mopar Muscle it was a magazine called "Mopar" I believe they only come to Dodge Dealerships? I am pretty sure that it said he was manufacturing the suspension, and the pix looked just like your kit?

  yea that suck ass "mopar" magazine doesn't tell the entire story.  get the mopar muscle and the same car is in it with the real story.  they bought bills kit and just made their own cross member.

[Bill_Reilly]

Oh, I didn't read that one. Originally, he said he was going buy the pieces from me, minus what he adds. Then again, control freaks said the same thing, so I guess it is what it is. You'll have that in the big city

Although, with the rockers a foot off the ground and no exhaust possible over the axle, do I really care? I know I couldn't sell many configured like that.

[Bill_Reilly]

I see it now. Looks like he really made his own kit from scratch at this point. Shame his design started with free parts I sent. At least he could've bought some parts to work from.

[440Demon]

Thats O.K.,
We know who has the best stuff.
RaisinBran your car looks great, we need more pics and info.
about it.

[RoadRnnr69]

I have the Irons' Works suspension in my car.
It is 100% different than the system I saw from RMS. The shocks, springs and some other stuff are similar but you can get that stuff anywhere.
The really unique thing is the sway bar. The car launches perfectly flat, no roll to side at all like some other 4 links I have seen.
I also was under the impression that the RMS kit only fit A bodies.

[abodyjoe]

I have the Irons' Works suspension in my car.
It is 100% different than the system I saw from RMS. The shocks, springs and some other stuff are similar but you can get that stuff anywhere.
The really unique thing is the sway bar. The car launches perfectly flat, no roll to side at all like some other 4 links I have seen.
I also was under the impression that the RMS kit only fit A bodies.

   thats nothing like RMS's rear suspension?  sure looks alot like it to me. only with cheaper shock plates and slightly different weld on control arm mounts.

[MyCreation68]

I have the Irons' Works suspension in my car.
It is 100% different than the system I saw from RMS. The shocks, springs and some other stuff are similar but you can get that stuff anywhere.
The really unique thing is the sway bar. The car launches perfectly flat, no roll to side at all like some other 4 links I have seen.
I also was under the impression that the RMS kit only fit A bodies.

   thats nothing like RMS's rear suspension?  sure looks alot like it to me. only with cheaper shock plates and slightly different weld on control arm mounts.

yeah looks like a copy to me. I don't quite understand about the sway bar? That doesn't sound unique at all to me seeing as a sway bar can do that.

[Bakaruda]

It looks like an early Air Ride Tech. kit to me.

[Bill_Reilly]

No, it's all different bracketry for sure. Normal off the shelf sway bars fit if the lower links aren't moved inboard. That's true of all systems.
  The customers I deal with could never use a system like that, so it doesn't much matter. Street/strip cars would probably like it but the modern handling crowd, which is mostly who I cater to, wouldn't be able to use it.

[RoadRnnr69]

   I don't quite understand about the sway bar? That doesn't sound unique at all to me seeing as a sway bar can do that.

The sway bar connects to the brackets in the front and the back as a complete system. The way the bar comes behind the rear end you can still lift the car with a floor jack at the rear housing. It's a pretty slick system.
You are right, this is more of a heavy duty race piece than just for cruising.
It has exhaust hanger mounts welded right to the subframe/cross member, also you can run tail pipes through it, I just haven't yet (lack of money!!!)
With all of the adjustment possibilities you can change the instant center to anywhere you want. I am going to the track this weekend to do some more testing/learning/adjusting.
My intention was to be able to do street and strip with no sacrifices of strength or ride.
If you look at the pictures on his web site you can see the differences pretty clearly.

http://www.unlawflracing.com/

[loiq]

Looks pretty different to me. More than one way to skin a cat.

[Bill_Reilly]

I prefer to say there's more than one cat that needs skinning

He actually aimed squarely at the cars I don't mess with much - the old school drag cars. Cant really argue with that...

[flyboy01]

Bill, have you noticed this line:

"Irons Works LLC has developed a new triangulated four-link coil-over rear suspension specifically designed for A, B & E body Mopars (patent applied for).  This rear suspension system is a self-contained unit that utilizes the original front leaf spring mounting points with its own sub frame that fits between the original frame rails.  The sub frame requires minimal welding and the complete system can be completely installed in just a few hours.  Our triangulated four bar system is completely adjustable for the ride height, stance, tire clearance, pinion angle, instant center and more, making it appealing to all forms of racing applications and on the street.  With its awesome design, it also looks great on the show field."

He applied for a patent on something you developed? What about the magazine article?

[Bill_Reilly]

I didn't develop that thing....

[flyboy01]

How come you have not gotten a patent for your yet?

[MyCreation68]

How come you have not gotten a patent for your yet?

Bill said it was to much hassle a while back when asked the same thing for the alterk.

[flyboy01]

Hmm, hope they don't get one and ask you to stop making yours.

[NYrr496]

Did anyone else notoce NONE of the nuts on that assembly have any threads from the bolts passing through?

The Nylok nuts aren't locking because none of the threads are even making it into the nylon.

[Bill_Reilly]

It doesn't work that way.  Patents can only be given for non-existing, unique designs.  The tri 4bar suspension as a general design is not patentable - it's been public domain since the 50's. Once something is on the market for one year, it becomes public domain knowledge and can not be patented by anyone. The specific design might be possible, but it's very specific - bracket shapes, hole locations, ect.  Anything already existing on the market is not affected, and in fact, if a patent attorney, or the patent office, finds too many similarities with existing products, it won't go through. You can add detail to a patent application to get it to fly, but if it's only small details, it's not worth it anyway. They only let you patent the piece that's unique.
  For instance, if the hole locations are the only difference from something existing, you can patent that combination of hole locations, but if someone moves all the holes 1/4", the product will still work fine without infringing the patent. In addition, it's about $3000 up front for the attorney, plus filing fees. If someone copies the product and you want them to stop, you take them to court over it - it's normally a $15,000 retainer for a patent attorney, plus $100-$300/HOUR. 

It's easily worth it if you stand to lose millions in sales, but if the stakes are 50 suspension kits versus selling 100, it's silly - you'd have to sell 40 or 50 kits just to pay for defending it. Especially if another company could skirt the issue by changing the brackets a little.
In fact, you can even get a patent on an improvement. Suppose I patent the street-lynx, you buy one and find that if you move the holes 1/2" down, it works better. You can apply for a patent on the improvement, but not the original design.
  Patents are difficult, time-consuming, and expensive to get, and even more expensive to defend, and typically don't cover enough ground in this type of stuff, compared to projected sales, to be worth it. Unless like I said, you come up with something completely revolutionary that could change the industry....which I'm working on   A P38 explosive space modulator

So overall, no big deal, nothing to be concerned about