rear sway bar relocated springs; UPDATE FINISHED

[b569rr]

I started the rear bar today. My set up is a standard length Dana 60 (your 8.75" should allow more room for bar clearance) and relocated super stock springs. I've kept my eyes out on the freeway, checked parking lots etc and found the following bar to be the closest to being able to fit. The 1999 - 2003 Ford F 250 / 350 4 x 4 front way bar. The front leaf springs measure the same outside to outside as a Dart with relocated springs. Unfortunately the bar is 1 1/4" diameter. Is this going to give me a handling problem. I can't see it flexing that much. Maybe it won't be too big of a deal with the narrowed spring centers.

Also, this obviously won't work with Cal tracks.

Anyways here's a few pics.


I forgot to take a picture of the restraining strap before I filled the holes. This bracket measures 5 3/8" long. The old holes have been filled and ground down. It's easiest putting the steel in a vise and perform an uphill mig weld to both sides. It fills fast and no need for copper backing.

cut the brakcet down to 4 3/4" long and redrill 2 -  1/2" holes on 3 1/2" center to center to slide onto your u bolts.

Attach it to the underside of your shock plate. Perfect fit.


Another view.

[b569rr]

Here is the bar. There is 6" of clearance from the face of axle tube flange to outside edge of the sway bar. Disk brake backing plates are flush with the axle tube flanges. Drum brakes will clear but cut down on your clearance.

Actually at least an inch of clearance. Bad picture.

I ran into an unanticipated problem. Notice the clearance between the u bolt front outboard nut and the bar. It is an 1/8" with the ubolt flush with the end of the nut. This pic is taken in the worst case scenario with the springs just barely hanging from the body. I replaced this nut with a standard size grade 8 hex nut. This fixed the problem and I posted a pic a few posts down. The bar interferred with the side of the nut, not the ubolt. It clears now.

This is the bar with the springs in a neutral position. I threw 4 iron BB heads in the trunk to give it some weight. This is the standard 4 x 4 end link. I will mount it tomorrow. I will sleeve the frame rails.

I tried to bottom the axle out but the SS springs are too stiff. I put 4 heads in the trunk, 2 BB Olds cranks, 2 scuba tanks with weight belt, 727 trans and my 250# neighbor (couldn't get the dogs in there) to check bar clearance the other way. clearance improves under the shock plate and the bar has 6" of clearance to the ground with the axles 13.5" off of the ground simulating 28" tall tires.

[b569rr]

This is the standard Super Duty 4 x 4 end link. It measures 11.5" center to center. They have neat sealed mechanical pivot bushings on them.

So my questions: Is this big 1 1/4" bar going to hurt my drivability? Remember this is a street car 95% of the time.


Some of you may think I'm wasting my time or adding weight. My reasons for doing this, several people have asked my to take a crack at this.

Also, you can buy a generic bar from some chassis shops. You can also have a bar custom made at some places.

[fourspeed]

Excellent work as usual.

My hunch is that the bar is too large for the rear. That's JUST a hunch. Typically, the front bar is over 1" in dia, while the rear bar is about 3/4". I'm thinking you might have some oversteer problems.

You might as well put it in at this point and find out what it does. Personally, I wouldn't go too crazy making it pretty until you know it's going to work out. It would be easy to find a bar larger than the stock Ford part, but probably impossible to find one smaller.

Mark

[b569rr]

Thanks Mark,

I wouldn't recommend anyone try this until I verify that it works. I have 1" rear bars on my RR and GM A bodies with 1 1/8" and 1 1/4" up front respectively. I can't find anything smaller than what I found and it only cost me $25. Honestly I didn't know it was 1 1/4" until I measured it at home. It didn't look that big sitting under the Dana that I pullled it off of. Removing it wouldn't take anything, just have a couple sleeves in the frame that won't be used. Guess I could put a Hellwig 1 1/2" F 450 bar up front to balance it out.

Tom

[dangerdawg]

at least you are doing it, and it looks like it could work. can't fault a guy for trying. hey, if more is better, too much, could be just right. you don't know till you try.

[b569rr]

Well I'm finished. I don't have any interference problems from hanging springs to compressed springs. The end links move quite well when I bounce on the car. I won't know how well it works until I test it some day. Here's some more pics.


Position end link on frame rail with the springs hanging from the body. Mark with center punch.

Drill all the way through nice and straight with a 1/4" pilot.

The bushings take 12 millimeter bolts.


Make some sleeves for the frame. 3/8" sch. 40 black pipe is perfect for 12 mm bolts. Very snug.

[b569rr]

Now take your unibit and drill holes on each side of the frame rail to accept the sleeves. Weld it up and grind it down.

Now bolt up the end links

This is the bar with the springs hanging. I ended up putting a grade 8 nut w/ 1/4" of thread protruding on the front outer U bolt corner to give me more clearance to the bar. I Now have at least 1/4" of space in worst case scenario. What grade is the Mancini U bolt?

Put the bolt in from the wheel side of the frame. The bolt sticks out 1/16" less than the spring box so this won't hurt the clearance on the 28" x 13.5" tires.

[b569rr]

rear view


This is Brutus.




Tom

[vitamindart]

very cool , nice work i will have to lock this in the memory bank will defenitly cure the body roll my car has

[Halfaed]

Brutus looks mean! Get used to little kids crying when you drive by!

[GON_RACIN]

nice job!  gotta love custom fabbed parts, gives a car so much more personality 

[cu440da]

Wow, that was fast! Looks good, too.

I recall an A body rally car article many years ago that ran two sway bars up front. Something to think about if you need more bar up front.

[krabysniper]

Excellent work, now get the rest finished and go out and drive the snot out of it and let us know how it performs.

2 sway bars up front??? I have 1 sway bar on the front of mine (1 1/8" inch diameter) and it would take an M1 Abrahms tank running over one of the front corners to get it to lean, why the hell would you want a complicated mess of 2?

[bOb shingler]

wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow

[b569rr]

Thanks everyone. I did it for you guys too. BTW, I took emery to the    FOMOCO mark on the bar.



Tom

[cu440da]

2 sway bars up front??? why the hell would you want a complicated mess of 2?

Well, that is one large rear bar... and

My hunch is that the bar is too large for the rear. That's JUST a hunch. Typically, the front bar is over 1" in dia, while the rear bar is about 3/4". I'm thinking you might have some oversteer problems.

it could be an option to resolve above mentioned problems, rather than scrapping the whole deal.

[signet]

b569rr

thanks for including all the details.

[dangerdawg]

great work tom. man, we need people like you, keep up the good work, the inspiration goes a long way. thanks.

[qkcuda]

I don't know anything about suspensions, but if the bar is narrower, wouldn't the rear end exert more leverage  on it, requiring a larger than normal diameter bar

[b569rr]

I don't know anything about suspensions, but if the bar is narrower, wouldn't the rear end exert more leverage  on it, requiring a larger than normal diameter bar

That's what I was thinking. Either way I have a solution. I told a freind my dilema and apparently there is a shop in Vancouver Washington (2 hours from me) that can make a bar for about $200. I would supply mine for tooling. I am not going to remove it until I test it out.

In conclusion, if you want to put a sway bar on the rear of your A body with relocated springs, the 1999 - 2004 Super Duty Ford 4 x 4 front sway bar is the pattern you want. Have your shop make it in a 3/4" or 7/8". Use the Ford end links and modify the U straps. The U straps are 1.5" wide and will probably accept bushings with a smaller bar diameter.

I have  a buddy that works at the Ford parts counter and had him look up some Ford part numbers today.

Fomoco end links part numbers1C3Z-5k483-BA AND 1C3Z-5K483-BB.  U straps part number F81Z-5486-AA.

Tom

[smitty72]

sweet work
lokking forword to hearing about the test drive.

[fourspeed]

Tom,

When you have all the details worked out and have some road testing done, this would make an excellent addtion to the tech pages. I don't know how many times I've seen posts asking about anti-sway bars for relocated springs.

Mark

[smitty72]

I was working on a 89 lincoln mark VII this week and had a 3/4" bar on the rear that was mounted just like yours. if you need a thinner bar this one might work.

[b569rr]

I was working on a 89 lincoln mark VII this week and had a 3/4" bar on the rear that was mounted just like yours. if you need a thinner bar this one might work.

Thanks smitty. I'll keep that in mind. I do think I will be OK.

Another bar for you guys to look at is the newer Chevy Avalanche. It looks to have a narrow bar of small diameter.

Tom

[MikesMopars]

You learn something new everyday.  Good work on the sway bar.

[74swinger]

I don't know anything about suspensions, but if the bar is narrower, wouldn't the rear end exert more leverage  on it, requiring a larger than normal diameter bar

That's what I was thinking. Either way I have a solution. I told a freind my dilema and apparently there is a shop in Vancouver Washington (2 hours from me) that can make a bar for about $200. I would supply mine for tooling. I am not going to remove it until I test it out.

In conclusion, if you want to put a sway bar on the rear of your A body with relocated springs, the 1999 - 2004 Super Duty Ford 4 x 4 front sway bar is the pattern you want. Have your shop make it in a 3/4" or 7/8". Use the Ford end links and modify the U straps. The U straps are 1.5" wide and will probably accept bushings with a smaller bar diameter.

I have  a buddy that works at the Ford parts counter and had him look up some Ford part numbers today.

Fomoco end links part numbers1C3Z-5k483-BA AND 1C3Z-5K483-BB.  U straps part number F81Z-5486-AA.

Tom

I suspect that you will not have any problems with steering on this one for a couple of reasons.........

1.  The rear bar is much shorter and....
2.  The mounting connection of the rear bar ends are likely to be the limiting flexibility point.

The rear bar has two jobs.....A) to keep the left and right rear wheel flat in relation to each other.  However, the rear diff does a much better job and keeping things flat to each other.  B)help keep the rear wheels and front wheels flat in relation to each other, but the front bar is the limiting aspect to this side of the perfomance equation (more weight, independant suspension).  The guideline of the a slightly smaller bar in the back is based on the assumption that the rear and front bar mount attachements are equally rigid (or flexible).  Change one or the other's flexibility, then the bar size must be adjusted to accomodate.  And the mounting is not limited to the mount itself, but the car's (or truck's) frame as a whole.  For example, a car with sub-frame connectors will understeer less than a car without.

Going to a bigger bar in the front is probably not needed considering the flexibility of the rear bar mount (the position of the rear bar mount being so high up).  I suspect that you will not see such a big difference in rear end movement with this change.  If the front bar is factory (1" or less), then the Dart may still have a dominant understeer tendancy.  I am interested in the test drive results.

As usual Tom.............beautiful work!!!!!