The cam is finally out of 67Dart383 engine. AKA 383Kidd

[67Dart383]

Hey we pulled the cam a few minutes ago, we were disappointed of what we found.  The lifter that was stuck had a hole in the bottom of it , there were chippings off the side of it on the very edge.  THe lobe directly under it was goudged down.   
Here are the #off the cam we cain,t find any matches to it anywhere right now.

CB8773
312h-8
CWC     EP45

[Steve DeTar]

Thats bad luck.  You will need to pull the short block and inspect all the bearings.  Most likely all your bearings have metal embedded in them.  If you still have the oil filter cut it in half and look inside.  While you are there, pull the oil pickup and remove the metal from the screen and flush it out real good.  Also the metal is in all the oil galleys, so you will want to pull all the plugs and flush it out also.  Been here before, don't overlook this step.

[gsmagnum]

That sucks that you will be out your car that much longer.
It might not be a bad idea to keep your eyes open for a running big block.

[Steve DeTar]

When Michelle's little 383 cam went south, it too grinded a hole in the bottom of the lifter.  I hate that cheap soft stuff.  Anyway, the metal/iron was in everything.  Had to machine the crank, new main and rod bearings, new cam bearings, had to flush the block, had to flush the rocker shafts, had to buy a new oil pump. That metal even made its way into the valve springs!  All I can say is this....if you go thru it right it will last.  If you try to do something cheap, it won't.  The pick up tube looked clean till I pulled the screen off.  Don't forget to blow out the oil holes after the crank has been machined...it too may have iron filings in it also.

[67Dart383]

This is a nightmare this was the last thing on our mind.   What makes the lifter have a hole in the bottom of it and what makes the lobe wear away like that it only did it to just one lobe and lifter all the rest looked fine. We are saving up for an assembled 360 stroker that we are going to put in it in a year or 2.   For right now we are going to clean the inside as best as we can change the oil real good put 2 filter mags on the new oil filter.

[Steve DeTar]

Improper cam break in..like letting it idle on first starts..lack of assembly lube, lack of lifter rotation, excessive spring pressure, improper lifter preload on the lifter, too much lash, soft cams, soft lifters. They all will wipe a cam.  You must pull all the oil galley plugs to flush.  When you first came here to and explained your car and engine, we all knew something was wrong. We were not trying to bust your chops!  We were telling you the truth even though you did'nt want to hear it.   I'm sorry for all the bad luck, we all are.  When someone else makes a sale on something, sometimes people have good intention not telling you everything, because it would'nt sell if they told you the truth.  Take it with a grain of salt.  Mopar Fever gets everybody one time or another...it is the knowledge we pay from our own pockets to know.  Good Luck and don't let it get you down.  Besides, you might score a 440 in the future and then we can go with you thru this process of getting it done without all this extra trouble.  Just because this jerk lied to you don't mean you need to sell your car either..just stay calm and things will work out..trust me...Steve DeTar

[my64dart]

Hey 383 Kidd,
      Sorry to hear about your bad luck with the camshaft. But you have to put it behind you now & get the motor fixed up the right way. Even if you have to put off racing until next year. It will give you & your dad something to look forward to . Just think about all the knowledge your get'n from this cam problem. Now you know how to disassemlble most of the motor & see the inside moving parts. Just be patient & do a good job. And don't try any shortcuts because a good mechanic will always do a job the right way. Besides that, you have a lot of friends here to help you out.
     Jim K

[67Dart383]

The guy who had the car before us may have been drinking to much when he put this engine togethere..   He had to of had some Adjustable Roller Rockers on there I looked up the cam and the specs say you cannot run that cam with stock rockers.   
HEre is the specs:

Comp Cams Drag Race Cam needs 4500stall, needs 4.56 to 4.90gears
Power Band: 4000-6500
Lift both IN & EX: .540
ADV Duration both IN & EX: 312
Duration @ .050 both IN & EX: 260

These are the parts that are specified for this cam:
Lifters: 867-16 Pro-MAgnum (This we don't have they are some crappy Summit Lifters)
Timing CHain: 3104 Hi-Tech Roller Race Set (That we have)
Rocker Arms: 1321-16 Pro-MAgnum Roller Rocker Arms (We do not have at all)
Valve Springs: 925-16 (That we do have)

[67Dart383]

Hey I also found some Proform Roller Tip Alluminum Shaft Mount ROckers at Summit for 199.95 I have a 20 dollar coupon I can use. Has anybody used them or have you heard about them are they good.

[dusterdarryl]

you'd be better off buying a gasket set & a set of bearings that any rockers right now

[Steve DeTar]

They are cheap, buy something good so you don't have any problems in the future.  Some old crane or Iskey ducticle iron jobs are better than that.   I paid 545 for my Harland Sharps, but I had to modify them to the head.  If they go, no big deal to me.  And this is the same attitude you must acheive.  Think twice, buy once.

[mrhotrod]

if your going to replace all the bearings which you should, replace the rings also while your in there. Just to be on the safe side. And replace the oil pump itself. I went thru the same problem before. Cam could have not been heat treated from factory correctly the cam I had fail on me was also a comp cam. I will never buy one of theres again.

[dusterdarryl]

gee iv had an exellent run from comp cams,

[bentwheel43]

The guy who had the car before us may have been drinking to much when he put this engine togethere..   He had to of had some Adjustable Roller Rockers on there I looked up the cam and the specs say you cannot run that cam with stock rockers.   
HEre is the specs:

Comp Cams Drag Race Cam needs 4500stall, needs 4.56 to 4.90gears
Power Band: 4000-6500
Lift both IN & EX: .540
ADV Duration both IN & EX: 312
Duration @ .050 both IN & EX: 260

These are the parts that are specified for this cam:
Lifters: 867-16 Pro-MAgnum (This we don't have they are some crappy Summit Lifters)
Timing CHain: 3104 Hi-Tech Roller Race Set (That we have)
Rocker Arms: 1321-16 Pro-MAgnum Roller Rocker Arms (We do not have at all)
Valve Springs: 925-16 (That we do have)

   kidd,when you called him to buy and he thought you was going to buy, he saved the money and took the parts off and put the stock parts back on because if you coat the inside the motor like yours you also know to put the right rockers,on a picture you have it has a deg. bushing ,at one time it was right and as for the convertor he took it out to and saved over $500 or more so he saved over $1000 with rockers,pushrods,and convertor.

[67Dart383]

I have some very good pictures of the cam and lifters it wil shock you.   

[bOb shingler]

shock us

[bentwheel43]

shock us

    Hell, if it was not hurt that would  be skocking, but we know its  F  d up  turst me.

[bentwheel43]

  Whats your plan to fix it are you going to take it apart or put a cam and let it rip?        you should have it done by now

[67Dart383]

Whats your plan to fix it are you going to take it apart or put a cam and let it rip? you should have it done by now

We have our camshaft on order we are going to put it in this weekend. I am working on the pictures right now. We are going to clean it up as good as we can.    Here is our procedure we are going to change the oil put new oil and oil filter in it and a filter mag on the oil filter, then we are going t obreak the cam in for about an hour then we are going to change the oil and oil filter again then let her rip until she goes down south.

[67Dart383]

Pictures

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[67Dart383]

More pictures

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[67Dart383]

More pictures

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[ksdartguy]

Are you replacing cam brgs?
If not, check all oil holes to make sure they are aligned. (the one in pic is off a little)
Also make sure cam will turn without too much drag.
What cam did you end up with?

Rick

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[67Dart383]

How can we aligned the cam bearings oil holes up without taking them out.

We are getting an ultradyne cam its supposed to outperform the Lunati Vodoo cam.

[PureGTS]

You can't other than drilling the hole out fromt the oil galley up. That will introduce more filings to your oil system too. Talk to your local machine shops and see if they have a left over set of bearings (from when they screwed up installing a set and had to buy a full set).  It's a long shot but sometimes luck starts to go your way and you look like you're about due.

[bentwheel43]

 I think all the bearing in the motor is like those cam bearing,them cam bearing need to be lined up better, look and see if some mite be off worst.

[67Dart383]

I have a question if the cam has lobes smaller than the lifter face will the lifter be prone to going bad since the lifter face is not fully contacting the cam lobe.     

when runnig a cam in a mopar should you get a cam that has lobes that are matched to .904 inch diameter of the lifter.


Do you think the cam I showed you was a problem as soon as It was put in. 

Also wouldn't you lose power if the lobes of the cam were for chevy and fords lifters?

[bentwheel43]

 your lifters spin in the bore,them cams is not flat they have an angel on them that makes the lifters spin      but roller cam are flat

[67Dart383]

SteveDeTar, you are  going to get mad when you see the specs.            The guy at Lunati cam said he can get the cam in a single bolt but it will be an ultradyne, because the lunati are three bolt.  We want to keep our timing chain there is nothing wrong with it.

Its a hydraulic.
Advertised Duration IN/EX: 276/284
Duration @ .050 IN/EX: 234/242
Gross Valve Lift IN/EX: .513"/.533"
LSA / ICL: 110/106
Valve Lash IN/EX: Hyd/Hyd
RPM Range: 2200-6400
We are getting a 3000 stall.

[Steve DeTar]

That sounds good, it will have a rumpity rump sound to it.  I am also glad you are getting a 3,000 stall.  It will work with your cam.  I hope you are getting their matching springs, cause you know you can't use yours.  What heads are on your motor?  I forgot.

[67Dart383]

That sounds good, it will have a rumpity rump sound to it. I am also glad you are getting a 3,000 stall. It will work with your cam. I hope you are getting their matching springs, cause you know you can't use yours. What heads are on your motor? I forgot.

They are 906 heads. 

[67Dart383]

How do the cam lobes get oil on them when the engine is running.  also when you first start the engiine up should all the lifter be spinning in the lifter bore?

[bentwheel43]

How do the cam lobes get oil on them when the engine is running.  also when you first start the engiine up should all the lifter be spinning in the lifter bore?

one of your wasn't

[Steve DeTar]

Yes they should spin.  It it were me and had the shortblock all ready built, I'de bolt the head back on with the valve train installed, without the intake on and valley tray, With a sharpie, mark each lifter at the 12 oclock position.  Now install your convertor in your tranny and bolt it up and hook up those peskey torque convertor bolts and install your starter.  Hook up a  battery to the starter,,,,all this is done on the shop floor.  Dont install the plugs.  With a a big screw driver or grab the solenoid lead, hit the + side of the battery, you motor should start spinning.  Now look at the lifters.  Are they at the 12 oclock position?  If they don't loosen the shafts and get to see it the lifter bore has any burrs in the lifter hole.  You can do this, it just takes time and cost no money.  While you are at it, put 2 quarts of dextron in the convertor before you bolt it on.  also put 5 quarts into the lifter valley.  Make sure you have a oil filter on.  The lifter must spin so crank it over with the battery 10 times.  Besides it cool to watch.  Just do it right this time, ok buddy?

[67Dart383]

SO what made it not spin after all?   I just trying to get a better understanding of how the valve train works and hw it gets its oil.  We can leave my engine out of it , just talk about a general engine.   How do the cam lobes get its oil supply?