Rear Axle swap question

[thebankerstoy]

Hi all,

I plan on having a large bolt pattern 8.25 A-Body rear end that I bought from Jim Lusk, rebuilt and installed into my son's 72 Dart Swinger, to replace the factory installed small bolt pattern 7.25 rear end.  Other than the driveshaft, will there be any other parts that will have to be changed for this swap? I was wondering about things like the emergency brake cables, rear brake hose's, rear shocks, or the main metal brake line, ect? I also have an aftermarket rear sway bar installed on the car and I was wondering if that will be a problem?
By the way, the car will still have the factory installed small bolt pattern 4 piston Kelsey - Hayes front disc brakes, until I can get the 73  single piston disc brake set up on the car. Would that cause any additional problems when doing the rear axle swap?   

Anyone who has done this swap and can help me out with any hints to make this an easy swap, I would appreciate your help VERY much! 

Richard

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[DJVCuda]

axle tuber are larger if i remember corectly, all I neede was the u bolts and shock plates to make the swap other then the driveshaft... i cant remember the brakes, but dont remember any problems!

[Jim_Lusk]

Richard, the brake hose should be the same, but if it's old replace it. There shouldn't be any problem with the brakes or sway bar (unless there is a u-bolt that goes around the axle housing that is too small for the biger rear). There have been different brake cables that I have seen, but I think yours will be fine. If not use the cables from the 7-1/4.

[thebankerstoy]

Thank you both.  Since Jim included the proper u-bolts and shock plates, it looks like the only two items that I will have to deal with, are the driveshaft and possibly the emergency brake cables. Looks like I will be calling around for a set of 3.23 or 3.55 gears to replace the factory installed 2.45 gear set. 

THANK YOU AGAIN Jim, for lugging that 8.25 to the 2006 Spring Fling car show, so I could pick it up from you! My buddy Matt, my wife Rosie and I,  REALLY enjoyed meeting you and your two AWESOME sons Alan and Jeff! 

Richard

[thebankerstoy]

One other item I forgot to ask you about. Are the rear u-joints and the rear yoke the same on both the 7.25 and the 8.25?
Jim, did you tell me that the 8.25 came out of a 1974 Duster? I just wanted to know for future reference when buying parts.

Thanks again VERY much. 

Richard

[Jim_Lusk]

Richard, as I recall it came out of a 74 Duster. I don't know what size u-joints were on your 7-1/4 or which size is on the 8-1/4. Both sizes came with almost any drivetrain over the years. You just have to measure the width of the rear yokes and compare.

[Lars]

I bet it's a 7260 yoke. Most of my 8 3/4's with highway gears came with the 7260, so I'm sure an 8 1/4 would be the same.

[krabysniper]

Thank you both.  Since Jim included the proper u-bolts and shock plates, it looks like the only two items that I will have to deal with, are the driveshaft and possibly the emergency brake cables. Looks like I will be calling around for a set of 3.23 or 3.55 gears to replace the factory installed 2.45 gear set. 

THANK YOU AGAIN Jim, for lugging that 8.25 to the 2006 Spring Fling car show, so I could pick it up from you! My buddy Matt, my wife Rosie and I,  REALLY enjoyed meeting you and your two AWESOME sons Alan and Jeff! 

Richard

Never, I repeat NEVER re-use already been installed U bolts. Use them as a guide for getting new ones but don't re-use old ones.

[mopowers]

What happens when you reuse old ones?

[Jim_Lusk]

I've never had a problem with used u-bolts, especially if they're cleaned up and blasted. They can lose their shape a little and be hard to install, though.

[krabysniper]

Why would you skimp on something that is so criticle to the susspension and yet fairly cheap to replace? U bolts stretch when you apply the proper torque and the proper retaining nuts are a self locking type which further stresses the threads and applys a twisting stress to the bolts when being installed and then removed, further weakening them not to mention if you have enough time on them for corrosion to start in. But thats fine, you can be cheap, and liable if used on the street and something does fail. Just my .02.

[mischiefdart]

I agree with krabysniper used u bolts are not worth the hassel. I have replaced many rear axles over the years and fighting to remove the nuts with a breaker bar because an air gun won't turn them sucks and it can't be good for the bolts. Most of the time they snap anyway. I just cut them off and get new ones.

[Jim_Lusk]

I have had a few where the nuts came off without a problem. Most of them are garbaged up from road grime. I won't hesitate to reuse one that are in good shape and I won't hesitate to replace ones that are bad. If you follow the logic that they all should be replaced, why don't you replace EVERY fastener related to suspension? I've NEVER had a u-bolt fail and I don't figure that I will in the future.

[krabysniper]

If the nuts were easy to remove, you are using the wrong type for the job.
Just because you can put a bullet in one chamber of a revolver cylinder and spin it, close it, put it to your head, pull the trigger, and there is a one in 6 chance it won't go off does not mean you should do it, just as you have done something and not had a failure yet does not make what you are doing the right thing. I won't sit here and argue the point with you over the net, heck for that matter I wouldn't waste the time if I were there in person, it's your life, and it means little to me, but like I said many times before to many others before you, if you drive on the street and you have had your fingers into the suspension, YOU are liable IF anything does happen. Do you have a wife and kids? How would you feel if some kid who wanted to hot rod his car but had no clue, makes changes to his suspension, goes out driving and has an accident because of something he did and your wife and kids are innocents that get killed because of his mistake? I would bet you will be like so many others, you'll cry whoa is me, why my family, then you'll sue (the great american pastime of course) for everything he will ever make and expect him to be tossed in prison, all because HE altered his susspension and didn't do it CORRECTLY.
U bolts are CHEAP. Life isn't. My .02 for the day.

BTW, response to the "follow that logic why wouldn't you replace ALL fasteners?"  Because not all fasteners are 4" or longer bolts with self locking nuts that are designed not to be taken off unless replaced with new.
and to the statement "I've NEVER had a u-bolt fail and I don't figure that I will in the future" the scientists and engineers who launch the space shuttle felt the same way as you about some issues they had with the shuttle, before certain instances proved them WRONG, are you claiming to be more intelligent than rocket scientists?

[rank]

Oh the drama.
Make sure you get an inspection report for those new 4" U-bolts stating they are made from the correct steel.  Better make sure the class of fit on the threads is correct also.  Might as well have them checked for hardness while you're at it. No wait, they may be case hardened..better have a chemical analysis done too.

What makes you think anything new and "CHEAP" (i.e. made offshore by a 13 year old kid) is any better?

Lighten up Francis.

[krabysniper]

Oh the drama.
Make sure you get an inspection report for those new 4" U-bolts stating they are made from the correct steel.  Better make sure the class of fit on the threads is correct also.  Might as well have them checked for hardness while you're at it. No wait, they may be case hardened..better have a chemical analysis done too.

What makes you think anything new and "CHEAP" (i.e. made offshore by a 13 year old kid) is any better?

Lighten up Francis.

Give it up, you know ZERO (shown by your thought that someone welded a ball joint to a control arm), I have my u-bolts made BRAND NEW at a local tire and susspension shop, while I stand there and watch.  Nublet  

[1967dart406]

Oh the drama.
Make sure you get an inspection report for those new 4" U-bolts stating they are made from the correct steel.  Better make sure the class of fit on the threads is correct also.  Might as well have them checked for hardness while you're at it. No wait, they may be case hardened..better have a chemical analysis done too.

What makes you think anything new and "CHEAP" (i.e. made offshore by a 13 year old kid) is any better?

Lighten up Francis.

 

i was going to stay away but i have had enough

since kraby has shown up and tried to give us his thoughts all he wants to do is prove everyone else wrong. 

i have been using used u bolts for years and will continue to. we have used them in everything from rock crawlers to drag cars.  never had a ublot break.  just because you recommend it doesnt mean you need to push it on anyone else.

chill out kraby or move on to another board.  this board is a compalation of some of the most intelligent people i have ever seen.
it also a board of opinions that some one can take and use or throw out

this means we dont need to be sold on your thought.

[rank]

....I stand there and watch.

That sounds about right.

....you know ZERO (shown by your thought that someone welded a ball joint to a control arm)

Better go back and check that thread smart guy.

I've read your posts and I'm sorry, but you are so critical about every single little detail (like educating Jim Lusk about freakin' U-bolts, )....well, you're only making yourself look like an idiot.  And I mean that in the best possible sense of the word.  Really.  I do.  Really.

[Jim_Lusk]

Never seen ball joints welded to control arms, huh. I have one at home right now. No, I didn't do it, but it is a generally accepted way of getting at least one more life out of an arm.

And Kraby, once again you show a complete lack of tolerance for other opinions. This seems to be the way you are. And THAT needs to change, not Richards U-bolts.

[1967dart406]

as for welded ball joints check the mid to late 90s rams and there is a several year span where ball joints were tack welded in place

[thebankerstoy]

Since I was the one who started this thread , I would like to make a comment on what's happening here.

krabysniper,

Thank you for YOUR opinion about the use of used u-bolts and u-bolt nuts. I appreciate it very much and I probably will use new parts, using the used parts as guides to buy the new parts. I also appreciate ALL of the other folks on this board, who have given me their thoughts and advice on this subject and many others.  I LISTEN to ALL of their ideas, then I do my own research and then make up MY mind on the best route to go on a project.

While it IS your right to express YOUR opinion on this board, as it IS a public forum, you do NOT have the right to try and make other people look bad, ESPECIALY in this case, my good friend Jim Lusk, who is not only one of the original members of this board, but who has helped out more people on this board, (myself included) over the years, than you could EVERr know. If your idea of "helping" fellow members out, is having a "my way or the highway" train of thought, I hope that you will find a place to fit in on some other Mopar board. Here on Big Block Dart, we will let GOOD folks like Jim Lusk and MANY others, who will REALLY help each other out and even when they disagree with each other, can disagree  WITHOUT being so abrasive.

I am POSITIVE that there are MANY folks out there that know more about cars than either one of us, so let's just ask questions, LISTEN to their ideas and then make up our own minds ok?

RESPECTFULLY yours,
Richard

[dangerdawg]

well said, very well said. amen.

[Mark Nixon]

Another used axle U-Boilt user, here. 
I'm going to die a horrid death due to a snapped u-bolt, one day. 

On topic: The 7.25 brake cables will fit per your original application, just swap them from the original rear end to the replacement.
I've even fudged  7.25 hydraulic brake lines onto an 8 3/4, in a pinch.

Mark.

[Jim_Lusk]

Say it ain't so Mark.......

I've seen the steel lines on the "wrong" rear end, too. My 67 Barracuda was like that when we got it.

[krabysniper]

I had a BIG response post thought up, but do to the lack of iq by some of the members of this bbs, I am not going to waste my time, it would have been way over their heads anyway. I am glad you will make up your own mind bankerstoy, thats the idea in the first place. My apoligies to Jim, if my pointing out that re-using old u-bolts is a bad idea, made him look bad, wasn't my intention, just my opinionons and thoughts on the subject and a few questions that make him think about his own thoughts. If you choose to use it or leave it thats your bizzness BUT what gives anybody the right to post here saying I should go away or not post here because THEY don't like my thoughts, sounds to me like you only want to hear your own horn blow and you are scared of someone else not saying what your say or doing what you want them to do, or beating a drum to the same beat as you want. A certain party stated here that "it also a board of opinions that some one can take and use or throw out
this means we dont need to be sold on your thought." Sounds like some need to practice what they preach, if you ask me.
At least I am not so disrespectful as certain others who do no more than make posts to insult, antagonize or otherwise just be rude. I don't really worry because the truly intelligent people actually read all the posts and can figure out who is the real "idiots" here, and the "idiots" are to stupid to know they are being so, so they just continue waisting time and bandwidth.

So, once again, for the twisted panty bunch, You should never re-use u bolts. My opinion based on expierence and education, take it or leave it, it's your life. Now go find something else to whine about.

[sr71mopar]

Once again Kraby, you come across as very insulting. What's more is you seem to direct your insults at specific people. Maybe you just have strong convictions. Dont know, dont care. Do you not realize the way you attack with your reponses? The person you appear to have in your sights this time has built more cars than most people around. How many rears have you swapped?

This is where your argument falls short: You dont feel comfortable reusing u-bolts, great. Dont. Fine, we heard you the first time. I appreciate your opinion. Give it, then shut the hell up.

[mopowers]

Every rearend I've ever swapped, I've re-used u-bolts.  Never had a problem or heard of anyonne having as problem.  I thought the only reason people DON'T re-use them is because they're such a bitch to take off that people end up cutting them off.  It just seems to me that if you NEED to use brand new ones everytime you take them off, you should also use brand new wheel studs everytime you torque the lugnuts. 

[DJVCuda]

hey kraby - is your eago that fragile that you need to  all the time?

[1967dart406]

 

you should also use brand new wheel studs everytime you torque the lugnuts. 

with that theory i guess your right 

i beleive it is