BACK HALFING SCAMP?

[NOST440980]

I JUST GUTTED THE SCAMP AND AM GETTING READY TO BACK-HALF. HAVE EVERYTHING NEEDED, REAR, TUBES, FRAME , FRMAE CONNECTORS AND FLOOR PANS. NOW MY QUESTION IS HOW DO YOU SUPPORT THE REAR OF THE CAR WITHOUT THE REAR FRAME ONCE YOU REMOVE THE OLD FLOOR PANS ? DON'T WANT THE CAR TO BEND AT THE ROOF LINE WHILE INSTALLING THE THE BACK-HALF. ANYONE HAVE A SUGGESTION OR TWO, OR PICTURES.

[eldubb440]

read 63 times and no replies??? thought someone wudda chimed in by now. i tubbed my boys shortbed, but have yet to do a car. try fabricating a couple temporary braces; you can probably utilize the shoulder and seatbelt bolt holes. just a thought.

[signet]

NOST440980

hey there.

are you able to do it in one spot and not move the body untill it is done?

is the engine and trans out of it?

i have a few pics in my gallery but i have to move her around constantly and this keeps me busy with setting the body up to be level ect. every time i measure or weld something.

also i have decided to work on the center section first making this square and level then proceeding to the front or rear areas of the body using the center section for my reference point.

but if i had a permanent spot i would do it differently and it would be easier and faster.


http://www.bigblockdart.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1504&limit=recent

[Gospel Runner]

Listen carefully on this one, I am no expert as most of us are not. It is critical if you want your car to come off the line straight, to keep your car straight and level when you attempt this procedure. If not your doors will not open and close properly and your body may bend as you indicate. The way it is done in a professional shop, they use a steel table that is bolted or tack welded to the frame, that is dead flat and level. I know they do not move this set-up from beginning to end. If you are not able to do this you are better off letting the pros handle it!!! Good luck!

[b569rr]

I am no expert either, but I put an Art Morrison rear 4 link on a Chevy Luv. First I raised the truck and leveled it out on jackstands and took baseline measurements to check that the truck was square and not damaged. I bought a bunch of fine threaded screw type jackstands to support everything. I put the piece up, leveled and measured car diagonally and welded away. It helped that the V8 and trans were already in the car so I could line up the driveline. Welded it up, took it to the alignment shop and he the alignment guy said there was no way I did this in my home garage. Beginners luck I guess.

Now let a true professional chime in.

Tom

[Dartsport]

Where did you find screw type jackstands. I have some tall screw type stands for under a lift. But I have never seen shorter ones??

[BARRACUDABILLY]

Ok guys, please don't laugh -too much but this is how we did my cuda.
leveled up the car in all directions nice and solid. my car stayed in place until the frame and cage were in.
We cut out the rear 12 inches or so of the car first and fabricated a piece of 2x3 tube and attached it to the inside rear
of the car just under the bumber bolts on the inside of the car, then welded it up and placed jack stands
under this 2x3 tube. I checked the car every night to make sure it was level before we did any work.
before we cut the floor boards out (up to the rear of the front seat) we cut a piece of tube to span
across the car quarter to quarter and used the engine hoist (cherry picker) to help support the car.
I used a back half kit from autoweld and had the frame back in within two weeks, just working at night.
Again check the level of the car often, I can't say if the hoist helped but we had it so we used it.
I had the doors off the car, but I would leave them on if I had to do it again. I have since put the doors
back on the car and all the panels line up like they should.

[b569rr]

Where did you find screw type jackstands. I have some tall screw type stands for under a lift. But I have never seen shorter ones??

They are about 12" tall with about 8" of stroke (or screw). I got them at a local trailer supply. A buddy of mine pointed them out to me when he went to buy an axle for a boat trailer. Apparently they are popular in building recreational trailers. I haven't seen these anywhere else. I can give you a pic if you want.

Tom

[NOST440980]

 I THINK I'LL TRY HAROLD'S RV CENTER ON 512 JUST OUT SIDE OF BATH, PA. FOR THE SCREW JACKS. DARTSPORT I'LL LET YOU KNOW IF THEY HAVE THEM AND WHAT SIZE.

[Duster Five-O]

They have those screw jacks in the automotive/trailer section of most Wal-Marts.

[NOST440980]

GREAT THAT'S EVEN CLOSER. I'LL TRY WAL-MART.

[b569rr]

Here's what you're looking for. I have half a dozen and they run about $15 each; all aluminum construction. I put a B rod next to it for comparison. Swing on by and borrow them.



Tom

[NOST440980]

WHERE WOULD I BE SWINGING ON BY TO BORROW THEM.           AND THANKS FOR THE PICS. DID YOU GET THE ALUMINUM JACKS AT WAL-MART?

[b569rr]

Nope. It was a small trailer supply shop that isn't there anymore. Since then I have tried to find more for freinds without luck. I wonder if Grainger would list something like these. I'm in Tacoma Washington.   Oh well, I've got mine .

Tom

[NOST440980]

BUMP. I FOUND A SET OF 4 AT THE RV CENTER NOT TO FAR FROM WHERE I WORK. SET OF 4  $34.95. I GOT MINE.

[Sixpak]

By chance did you buy a kit from someone or did you just buy individual pieces? I did a 70 Swinger for a guy, it's the same as your Scamp. But he bought a kit from Chassis Engineering. Their instructions state to support the car by placing blocks, jacks, etc. along the bottom of the rockers on the pinch weld.  The car should also be set to the lowest possible ride height it will ever see. In the case of my kit, that was 8 " from the ground to the bottom of the rocker. This is very import because it affects where things like the new crossmember get welded in. You also should have marked on the rear quarters, before moving the rear end - the centerline of the wheels. This gives you some baseline to work from when installing the new crossmember, cause it sets where the framerails go in, which sets where the ladder bar or 4 link brackets go, which determines where the wheels sit in the wheelwell. Many guys move the wheels back 1 inch from factory, to avoid trimming the front edge of the quarter panel for tire clearance.

Bottom line the people who sold you the frame rails and crossmember should have given you a blueprint to work with. If not, then I'd send those parts back and get a kit engineered for your car, and one that comes with a blueprint.

Oh by the way, you do know that you WILL have to put a full cage in the car, too. 

Some other tools you absolutely have to have in order to do this right - a BIG carpenters level, for leveling the car side to side and front to back, a flat working surface, a chalk line so you can snap reference lines on the floor for the centerline of the car, the DRIVELINE CENTERLINE (remember, Mopar drivetrains are offset to the pass side of the anywhere from 1" to 1 1'4 " and this affects where the bow in the new crossmember goes for the floor tunnel) and for the axle centerline of the car; a plumb bob to transfer measurements made on the body to the ground, and a big carpenters framing square for transferring measurements off the chalk lines on the floor to the chassis, new crossmember, new framerails, etc.

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[NOST440980]

 SIXPAK, IS THERE ANYTHING WRONG WITH NOT USEING THE OFFSET IN THE DRIVETRAIN? WHAT IS WRONG WITH SETTING UP EVERYTHING STRAIGHT. NO BLUEPRINTS WITH PACKAGE BUT IT WAS WELL MADE AND ALOT OF HELP ANYTIME. THEY DO GIVE YOU A DRAWING AND HOW TO INSTAAL BUT NOWHERE DOES ANYONE SHOW HOW TO SUPPORT THE BODY WITHOUT A FRAME UNDERNEATH. NOW I SEE YOU USED BLOCKS, THAT I CAN DO. JUST WAS WORRIED ABOUT FLEX IN THE BODY WHILE INSTALLING THE FRAME AND ROLL CAGE. THE BACK HALF IS PREWELDED FOR THE COILOVERS LOCATION AND THE LADDER LINK BAR LOCATION. MOVING THE REAR BACK 1" IS IN THE PLAN NOW. DON'T WANT TO TRIM THE FRONT OF THE QUARTER PANEL EITHER.

[NOST440980]

OH YEA MORE PICS. THANKS

[72swinger]

i just put jackstands under the rear body panel for support.just put small piece of wood on stand to distribute the weight better.i set my ride height on the car with 2x4's and 4x4's.i have pic's but still havent figured out how to do it   

[Sixpak]

Not using the offset can cause you problems. Not sure what motor mount setup you plan on using but if its based on the mounts on a stock K frame then the offset is built into that already. The floor tunnel is offset as well. The trans mount location definitely has the offset built into it, too. So you'd have to move all of that and hope your driveshaft does not get too close to the driver side of the floor tunnel. The offset is also there from the factory so there's more room on the drivers side of the car for things like the steering box and starter. If you line up the motor without the offset you'll make your header clearance even less on the drivers side and that already stinks on a Mopar that's stock. If the backhalf is a generic setup it may not have the offset built in (which I suspect) and the lower loop of the new crossmember that the frame rails weld to won't line up with the offset in the stock floor. That might cause issues with the driveshaft hitting the new crossmember. Might have to carefully measure, cut, and reweld the dip in the front crossmember so that its offset to the pass side. Ask whoever made the setup whether or not they built in any offset for a Mopar. You absolutely MUST have the new frame rails centered in the car, not offset.

If you need some good instructions on how to backhalf a car, Chassis Engineering used to sell a video explaining how to install their kit, which is not pre-welded. It goes through all the measurements, snapping chalk lines, how to locate the new crossmember and frame rails, etc. If they do not sell it any longer I have a spare which I'd sell for what it cost me - $30 plus postage, in the US.

One last thing - please turn your caps off. It's like you're shouting at folks - hard to read, too. 

[b569rr]

I didn't see where you got your kit, but Art Morrison in Washington State provides instructions with a Cad drawing of their peice.

Tom

[NOST440980]

b569rr, I GOT THE WHOLE SET-UP FROM S+W RACE CARS. THEY HAVE ALL THE HELP ON THERE WEB SITE WITH THE INSTALL. BUT THERE WAS NOTHING ON HOW TO SUPPORT THE CAR AFTER THE FRAME REMOVAL. NOW I HAVE A HAND ON WHAT I HAVE TO DO. AND TO ANSWER SIXPAK. I AM USEING A MOTOR PLATE INSTEAD OF THE MOTOR MOUNTS.
sorry i like writing in caps. i can read them better.