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440 block pics and drilling

154K views 151 replies 49 participants last post by  bOb shingler 
G
#1 ·
Here's some pic's for you guys that want to Modify for block for better oiling. Mopars main oil gallery is roughly a 9/16 bore all the way thru the block on both sides. The bad deal is every lifter passes thru each gallery meaning, you have 16 points of leakage, not including a massive leak in the # 4 main, which feds #4 cam journal, which is timed, to feed each rockershaft assy. All the holes in this late 77 440 block were a 1/4, these are the feed holes that come down from the passenger "Main" oil gallery. As you can see in the pic, #2, #3, #4, #5, are fed off of the main oil gallery. #1 is fed off the front which intersects the pass over passage that is cast into the front of the block from the oil pump pad.

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#52 ·
dusterdood said:
1/4-28 threads in the 4" extension. I ordered the collet I need. Now we wait! o[
Mike
What was the part number of the collet you ordered?  Was it from McMaster-Carr? 
I found the reamer and extension.  Can't find a 1/4" collet in their on-line catalog.
Thanks in advance,
Robert
 
#54 ·
Nice job Steve. Good attention to detail. With that said, and, I by no means am saying this to bash Steve, but, that mod is largely a waste of time. The mopar big block oiling is quite good. I personaly have built more big block mopars than I can count over the years, and I have never done this mod. I have built everything from 400hp enhanced stock type engines, to 850+hp naturaly aspirated stock block engines, to 1000+ hp blower and nos engines etc, and, never had a crank or bearing issue. NEVER. If you set your clearances right for the application, and use a good pump, there is plenty of oil getting there. The only oil mod I do, when I use a screw in oil pick-up, is to radius the 90 degree turn, the oil makes, from the oil pump mounting pad, where the passage is drilled into the block, then, the oil passage that feeds the pick-up, thats drilled 90 degrees and intersects each other, I radius that corner, so the oil can "turn" with out getting all turbulent there. Up to roughly 700hp, and 7000 rpm, I even use the stock sized pick-up, with ZERO issue, ever. After that, I use either a single, static pick-up external line, or, a dual line, with swinging pick-up.

With that said, if you want to do the mods, then knock yourself out, you likely won't hurt anything, but it really is unnecassary. Long, skinny drills and reamers, break REAL easy. And, if you aren't careful, and one snags, or catches, they snap without warning. Again, I am not trying to downplay Steves work, but, I thought I would give my opinion

Frank
 
G
#55 ·
Frank I don't use drill bit's, they break too easy. Lot of these oil mods were passed down from old super stock racers from the 60's and 70's, Herb McCandless, a friend of my dad's. Thanks
 
#58 ·
I couldn't get the collet from Mcmaster-carr. I found on line a company (tight fit tools), who sold me a threaded collet for $8 + $5 to ship. The phone # was (562)946-8444. There's probably a better way to get the pieces you need, but I'd already bought the extension.
<Mike
 
#63 ·
Like i said, a big block mopars oiling system, is very good. Consider this. First off, I am a legit, real engine building proffessional, with 18 years expierience, and, I have never done that, except in certain cases, thaqt i will mention in a minute. I have also never lost an engine to a bearing problem. If you set you clearances right, and run a HV pump, and the right pan, with baffling, a windage tray, and enough capacity, you will not have a problem. Even the 1/2 oil pick-up mod is a waste of time. Thats a pretty big hole stock, in the wedge motors. Ever looked a BBC? Ever see how small the oil feed hole is from the rear cap, to the main oil galley? Its about 1/3 the size. Thats the ultimate restriction in a bbc, or a sbc for that matter, and they have very good oiling. If you compare and contratst with the mopar, the oil pump is up front. So, centrifugual force, is helping push the oil towards the rear of the engine. On the chevies, its in the rear, and has to fight this force, pumping the oil forward, making it harder for the front cylinders, to get oil, and they oil just fine.

The reason the stockers, and superstockers do those mods, is because they push the limits of the oiling system. Meaning, they run lower pressure, and standard volume pumps, and, they will run a much smaller amount of oil in the pan, to reduce potential losses from widage. So, they do all those mods, to give themselves "insurance" so they get all the oil possible, thats available, to keep the bearings alive. Thats a BIG difference between a stock and superstock application, to a mild street cruiser, or bracket racer. Thats why those mods are done, and is necessary in those applications. Like I said, if you want to do it, then do it. It won't hurt anything. But, with the right pan, pump, and clearances, its not needed.

Frank
Advanced Performance
www.get-ap.com
 
#64 ·
Good point.

But I'm interested in trying to keep a motor alive w/ a stock volume & pressure pump.

I understand that bigger pumps with heavier springs are tried and true - but I'm interested in looking into the 'plan B' as well.

My thought is just like stock or SS racers; how can I get it there w/o spending the power to push oil against a restriction. I know it's gotta take some amount of power, or people wouldn't harden the ends of oil pump drives.
 
#65 ·
Steve DeTar said:
Drilling these gallery's out alone will increase flow 10% to the bearings.
Some of my numbers were wrong. I only accounted for one side of the bearings. The following is with the corrected numbers:

1/4" to 9/32" is a 27% increase in area. How big are the holes in the bearings? What kind of volume actually comes out of the main and rod bearings? Also, with a 3.6" main and .003" clearance, I get an area of .068". With .003" clearance on the rods, I get .044" per rod, or .088" a pair. Together, I get .156" of area for a main and pair of rods. With .001" of clearance on the rods and mains, I get .052" of area that the oil is flowing out of the crank per main. The bearings are half grooved, so oil isn't going to all rods at once, so these numbers should actually be smaller. Tell me if I'm wrong. With one main, two rods, and .003" clearance, the area that the oil needs to go through is 62% the size of the main oil feed hole of 1/4". At .001" clearance, that number drops to 20%. The rod side clearances restrict the oil loss even more, so I don't think that this mod is necessary. Perhaps limiting oil to the valve gear would be better. I don't know. What do you think?
 
G
#66 ·
I think that the surface area of the 16 lifters bleeds alot off.  I think for every 90 degree turn in a hydraulic system, the flow drops 10%.  The surface area of the rods has been know to grow in highhorsepower engines, which eventially cuts oil off the bottom of the cylinders.  I think full time oiling to the mains is better than half groove bearings, but that is my opinion.  I hate number 4 main, it also feeds the rockers.  I think Indy had the right idea about feeding the oil to the rockers externally via the back of the main oil gallery.  I hate the lifters are pressurized first, then in the oil gallery, must make a 90 degree turn to feed the mains.  I hate the pressure drop especially in the rockers.  The bad deal is, you have to times it by 16. Closed hydraulic systems are much more easier to compute, but when you have a open system that leaks to the atmosphere, things like heat have a greater inpact.  I just wish I could take the hydraulic mule home from Cessna so I could hook it up to one of my engines for further analysis.  It flows 6 gallons a minute at 1500psi to operate all the hydraulics on the CJ 1,2,and 3, still a low pressure, low flow, pressure system.  This is my day job.

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#67 ·
I am covinced that this mod is warranted for my engine, its such an easy mod, and I have seen three 383/400 motors that had rod/main bearing issues and I want to protect my engine against this. Its just peace of mind to me, I may never need it, but it does help.

Just a few questions for Steve. Can you ream the mains without having to pull the cam bearings? Also, how do you ensure that you get all the metal chips out of the block? I don't have a source of running water in my garage, but I may be able to rig up a pump and maybe a tub of some sort. What about the passages in the crank? Do you recommend full groove bearings?
 
#68 ·
I know this question was not directly to me, but I do NOT like full groove bearings. I like the 3/4 grooves. Reason being is I don't believe the full groove bearing has enough surface across the face of the crank. I had two engines with full groove mains that always had plenty of oil pressure wind up with beaten up cranks. I switched to 3/4 groove bearings where the groove is across the entire top shell and only halfway down the bottom shell with the very bottom being smooth, supporting the entire journal. It was much better after many street miles.
 
G
#69 ·
Just a few questions for Steve. Can you ream the mains without having to pull the cam bearings? Also, how do you ensure that you get all the metal chips out of the block? I don't have a source of running water in my garage, but I may be able to rig up a pump and maybe a tub of some sort. What about the passages in the crank? Do you recommend full groove bearings?

You will have to flush all the passages after doing the reaming, that iron can destroy any bearing, so the cam bearings need to come out. I usually do this before the "hot tank" and rinse. The crank should have a nice radius on all the oil feeds, but after the reaming, it is recommended that you install the upper shell of the main bearings and elongate the hole in the bearing if needed.....you will have to check your main bearings installed for this. Full groove if it's a race motor that is taken passed 7200rpm all the time, and that's just my opinion. There is nothing wrong with half grooves or the 3/4 groove bearings, I just like constant flow to the bearings all the way around the journal, it helps cool it. Just make sure you know what your rod side clearances are. In the old days with "fuel" the bearings would crush closing off the side clearance and oil to the bottom of the cylinders. Today bearings are much better than the old babbit bearings, still, you could increase flow to the bearings by doing some simple reaming. Good Luck, Steve D.
 
G
#71 ·
375stroke, of course it would'nt if the motor is sitting static. I work on hydraulic systems and have worked at Cessna 11 years now in Flight. I use a "Mule" almost everyday on CJs. Asking me what I would do with one is kind of silly since you work on 737's. You could use it to measure leakage, and how much of a pressure drop on each main, connect rods sets., lifters, and everywhere else it is pressurized. and since I can heat the oil to 170 degree's or higher, it would be something very interesting to do for fun. I know AndyF was going to make one so he could do some testing on some oil pumps. Never heard from him since we last talked about it. He might be too busy on the moparts site.
 
#72 ·
We made an oil pump dyno for testing oil pumps but I've never done any testing of the oiling system in the block. I had some long drills modified to do the block drilling. If the tips are reground they won't catch and break like a regular drill. The reamer is safer and a tapered reamer would probably be even better. I've seen some really nasty oil feed holes in blocks so I always go in there and do a clean up. The last motor I toasted on the dyno was a 383 block that I didn't do the mod on. When we tore it down we found some casting flash in the #4 feed hole. Had I just spent the time to run a reamer thru the feed hole I would've saved a nice 383 stroker short block motor so that was a $3000 mistake.
 
#74 ·
Some guys drill or ream the #4 feed hole to 5/16 or maybe even bigger. #4 is the killer of course since that feeds the top end. Every motor I've ever blown up has been a spun rod that is fed by the #4 main. It usually seems like the #6 rod is the first one to go. I've torn apart several blown motors in wrecking yards and found a spun #6 rod bearing also.
 
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