Lifter chatter?
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Thread: Lifter chatter?

  1. #1
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    Lifter chatter?

    I'm having the hardest time with this damn rattling. I have a comp roller cam, retro rollers and roller rockers all from 440 source. Engine is fresh, barely broken in. I followed the sequence in setting lash. 1/4 turn past zero lash when lifter is on the backside of the circle base of the cam lobe. The tech Dept from 440 source thought maybe it was a bad set of lifters not pumping up so we had comp warranty a new set. I have the exact same symptoms. At cold startup, no noise. Once the engine is completely hot, after about 20 minutes of idling, the rattle becomes very prominent. Sounds like a diesel from the videos I've been taking for comparison. I've added a total of one full turn past zero lash, that helped very minimally but still too loud. Sounds like a bad exhaust leak when driving. 12 psi of oil at idle using 10w-30. Any advise on next steps?

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    BBD LEGEND qkcuda's Avatar
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    My setup with the same cam and lifters and Crane Gold rockers has a clatter at cruising RPM that I liken to a sewing machine. I figure it is in the rockers.

  4. #3
    Full Member my64dart's Avatar
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    Hi,
    Why don't you try a heavier oil. Go to a 40w or 50w oil and see if that helps. I've had bad luck with a certain major brand oil company and won't use them again. Just try a different brand oil with a heavier weight.
    383 stroked to 432c.i. / 440Source Stroker / Edelbrock RPM heads / 750 Holley / Torker Intake / Lunati VooDoo cam / Dynamic 9.5 converter / Cope Racing Trans / 3:55's with a suregrip /I'm Always Working On Something

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    BBD LEGEND qkcuda's Avatar
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    Didn't think to mention it, but I use 20W50 oil due to larger bearing clearances. 12 PSI at idle is pretty low.

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    I swapped out the purolator filter for the Fram HP1 per Ken at 440 source. that actually helped me get 20-25 psi at idle. I guess the bypass valve opens with a 8 psi split on stock style filters and the HP1 opens at a 20 psi split. not sure if that is why or not but I do have more pressure at idle only. as for the heavier oil, Ken advised me not to do so for now until we rule out it being a preload issue.

    I'm at one full turn past zero lash now and still sounds terrible. He wants to keep adding preload 1/4 turn at a time until the engine starts to overlap due to too much preload. then if it still rattles the same, we have other issues.

    I'm thinking my lifters are bad again. I've already warrantied the last set with Comp since we thought they were the issue. I have the exact same symptoms as last time I went through this. the only variable is the oil filter that I just changed last night. maybe the lifters are damaged (again?) like the last ones were due to insufficient oiling. it only has a total of 2 hours or so of run time through all this. is that enough to damage them with 10-15 psi of oil pressure? I've never exceeded 4k rpms on this set of lifters. maybe i need to try another brand. I'm just lost at this point. what are your thoughts?

  8. #6
    Full Member my64dart's Avatar
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    Hi,
    The reason I stated to use a heavier oil is because if the lifters are bad, and bleeding down to fast your gonna get that lifter noise. The heavier oil will help quiet it down a bit. I bought a cam kit once and the lifters that came with it were a cheaper quality. I bought their more expensive set and there was a big difference. Not all parts are made of the best quality.
    Last edited by my64dart; 03-28-2018 at 10:39 AM.

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    Full Member kendog170's Avatar
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    I had some similar issues but not Roller cam just roller rockers .It was a Comp HL hydraulic cam. I bought a solid cam and lifter set but I never installed it's been 3 years car still runs great but noisy as hell . You should read the post I posted back on 03-09-2016. You can do a search Noisy Hydraulic lifters and it should come up . There may be something there . I know the HL series cams had a problem being noisy because of the closing ramps were too quick and 440 source stainless steel valves hit hard closing . I don't know much like some of you guys here but hope it helps .
    Good luck .
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    now I guess we're thinking that there is a missing oil galley plug behind the timing chain cover. Ken at 440 source believes that could possibly be the issue if adding another full turn of preload doesn't stop the chatter. sounds exactly like a sewing machine. We're at 1.25 turns past zero lash right now. Although the symptoms don't exactly point to to that being the issue. I have 20 - 25 psi of oil pressure at idle at 900 RPMs after replacing the other filter for the Fram HP1. We'll see after I add another turn of preload.

  11. #9
    Full Member kendog170's Avatar
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    I had a small block that was noisy on one side. Luckily I removed lifter galley plug and looked inside. Someone must off punched it in and put another plug in. Had a hard time removing it but got it done . Did you figure it out yet ?
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    Well, I removed the timing chain cover to reveal that the galley plugs are installed just fine. I'm lost. Ken at 440 source either thinks it is a bad oil pump (unlikely) or there is an internal oiling issue with this block...

    What about the two oiling modifications that are stickied on this forum Do you think my block could benefit from full time rocker oiling or even from drilling like outlined in the below link?

    https://www.bigblockdart.com/forum/sh...s-and-drilling

  13. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mopar6791 View Post
    Well, I removed the timing chain cover to reveal that the galley plugs are installed just fine. I'm lost. Ken at 440 source either thinks it is a bad oil pump (unlikely) or there is an internal oiling issue with this block...

    What about the two oiling modifications that are stickied on this forum Do you think my block could benefit from full time rocker oiling or even from drilling like outlined in the below link?

    https://www.bigblockdart.com/forum/sh...s-and-drilling
    I believe that oil mod works best with shaft bushed roller tipped rockers. If you have needle bearing rollers you will need a high volume pump and will need to make sure your drainback passages are clear. If you choose to use Holley jets to control the oiling to the shafts, make sure you start small and go larger only if you are trashing needle bearings.
    I would recommend it either way in your case. The only reason I am not doing that on my block is I am using the factory rocker gear which get plenty of oil with the intermittent, factory oiling to the rocker gear.
    The World blocks have full time oiling to the rocker gear built in.

  14. #12
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    Do you have a fast ramp rate cam?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhuppertz View Post
    Do you have a fast ramp rate cam?
    It's a comp roller .549/.544" lift and 242 intake and 248 exhaust duration at .050" Ken at 440 source is well aware of all parts that make up my engine so it worries me that he thinks the passages are blocked or cracked. Got the cam and lifters from him. Doesn't make any noise until the engine is hot.

    Should I try a heavy oil? Swap the pump? Pull the engine and take it back the machine shop? It was years ago that they built it, just recently had the money to finish it in the car, to find this out.

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