[dartsport440]

I was pulling my main caps off today to tear it down and put a girdle in. It had some cap walk on all the caps but mostly on the center mains. Pretty common from what I have seen and read. My question is, are the caps still ok to use after they have cap walk marks all over them?

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

pretty normal. just make sure the registers are still tight, if not you'll have to spray weld the caps and have it re-align honed.

 

[dartsport440]

Ok. I am having it align honed anyways because I am putting in studs now. It just had ARP bolts before. I am leaning torwards Hughes main girdle and they recomend staying with the stock caps. They say that is not where the problems are. #^~!

 

[Moparpoor]

If I remember correctly you are shooting for 750hp.Order up a billet cap and girdle kit.The source stuff is out in the field with good results.I have a set on order myself.Cheap insurance!As for hughes responce to the cap question,ask 10 builders and see what their answers are.

 

[dartsport440]

I am shooting for 750 hp next year with the stroker set up. I would only like to have to do this once though. I always question 440 source stuff. Would you recomend the billet steel caps or aluminum? There girdle also?

 

[Moparpoor]

I agree with you on the source stuff.Thats why I said billet steel,no experience with the source aluminum caps.Really if the caps are good qaulity aluminum and are machined correctly they should work fine just as the billet steel.The real difference between aluminum and steel.The aluminum acts as an absorber.For the extra $100 I would save my money and spend it on a good balancer or on something else.

 

[SilverBack]

I would have a look at these
http://www.bcrproducts.com/

 

[deepockets]

pretty normal. just make sure the registers are still tight, if not you'll have to spray weld the caps and have it re-align honed.

whats that, spray weld?

 

[dartsport440]

I would have a look at these
http://www.bcrproducts.com/

This looks like a great set up but is it worth $800???

 

[moparal]

I'm running 3 440 source girdles on 3 cars. 1 has aluminum 440 source mains, 1 has 440 source billet steel, and the other has stock mains. No problems so far with any of them. All engines are over 600 hp +. 1 stealth heads cnc ported, 1 eedy head and 1 B1 head . Pump gas, race fuel and methanol on the 3 engines. The alky engine has the aluminum mains. The B1 has aluminum rods, the stealth has steel rods

 

[dartsport440]

I'm running 3 440 source girdles on 3 cars. 1 has aluminum 440 source mains, 1 has 440 source billet steel, and the other has stock mains. No problems so far with any of them. All engines are over 600 hp +. 1 stealth heads cnc ported, 1 eedy head and 1 B1 head . Pump gas, race fuel and methanol on the 3 engines. The alky engine has the aluminum mains. The B1 has aluminum rods, the stealth has steel rods

How long have these motors been together? Was the machining all good on the caps to fit the registers nice? What set up do you like the best in the bottom end?

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

whats that, spray weld?

moparpoor can probably elaborate on this because im no welder but it provides a relatively flat surface to machine back down. we've used tig also.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

How long have these motors been together? Was the machining all good on the caps to fit the registers nice? What set up do you like the best in the bottom end?

aftermarket caps will have to be machined to fit into the registers, they size em with a little fat because all blocks are different. then they'll have to be align bored on the block to get them to spec.

I've used the Hughes girdle with stock caps, its a real nice piece. aftermarket caps are going to be better but its going to cost. if money was no object then i'd be inclined to go with the billet caps (well actually a aftermarket block) but, i know how it is. i think billet caps are a better choice over the aluminum because the're going to expand less and i think that would be a plus with them sandwiched with a girdle. without a girdle then alum caps would be my choice for a race motor. still not a big fan of the alum caps on the street even though people do it. and with the girdle im not convinced that your gaining anything over a stock cap. kind of the idea of a girdle. i personally think once you get up in the 750hp and above range your on borrowed time with any stock block, no matter whats done to it.....

 

[cu440da]

Spray weld is a specialized process where molten metal is sprayed on a part to build up the area for machining back to specs.

 

[dartsport440]

I just called and talked to Muscle Motors tonight. They said anything over 700 hp should have a girdle and it will be fine. He said they only do one or the other, billet caps or girdle. They use aluminum on race motors and billet steel on street motors if no girdle is being used. He recomended just running a girdle and it will be ok even with the stroker and 725hp....

 

[Moparpoor]

Spray weld has a few different ways that it is applied.The most popular way is metal that is sprayed at various temps.It is used to rebuild surfaces and hard face.They actually do it to crankshafts,blocks,and just about any part that requires tight machined tolerances.We had a crank that weighed over 1000lbs out of a dredge for the electric company spray welded.Thank god I don't do it.I have watched it being done,nasty stuff.I welded a small gouge up in the crank and ground it just below the surface.Then sent it out for spray welding and remachining.Still banging away ten years later.They have another way were they dry spray a material of choice and heat the part to melt the material.Almost like powder coating,haven't seen this process.There is a place here in Mi. www.michigansandblastinginc.com that does spray welding and thermal coating.The biggest use my father and I have used this for is rebuilding large hydraulic cylinders from heavy equipment.Especially equipment used in snow removal,that usually is pitted from salt and corrosion.You can think of spray welding as mig welding aluminum on a huge scale.It is basically the same process of metal transfer just much larger scale.

 

[Moparpoor]

I just called and talked to Muscle Motors tonight. They said anything over 700 hp should have a girdle and it will be fine. He said they only do one or the other, billet caps or girdle. They use aluminum on race motors and billet steel on street motors if no girdle is being used. He recomended just running a girdle and it will be ok even with the stroker and 725hp....

Thats funny they just priced out aluminum caps,girdle,half fill,and machining for the caps $1100.You will never get a straight answer from anyone.Like I said earlier,call ten shops get ten different answers.I have seen first hand,motors with billet caps and girdle survive.451,hemi crank,scat rods,ross pistons,over 13.5cr,cnc-1heads,740roller,single line oil system,source billet kit with girdle,2+ years flogging,with shift points just below7000rpm trap rpm 72-7400rpm dynoed at 730hp roughly.I just helped him pull it apart for inspection and freshening.The caps showed no signs of walk or scuffing,the bearings consistent across with minimal wear.Looks to be more signs of dirty assembly more than anything!!!Not the first set I have seen in use with good results.

 

[gt]

How can you tell if a cap has walked.
Any pics to show what 'cap walk' looks like?

gt

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

How can you tell if a cap has walked.
Any pics to show what 'cap walk' looks like?

gt

the mating surface will look really pitted

 

[bremereric]

I got my ARP main cap bolts ordered yesterday. Hopefully no cap walk for me. I can hardly wait to check my old block out.