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well i am thinking of acid dipping my car or sandblasting it but i have no idea where i can get this done i live in Albuquerque, NM if you know of any shops in my area i can get this done i would shure appreciate it
 

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I personally would forgo both in favor of soda blasting.
Acid dipping removes paint from places that you can't re-apply it in many cases unless you are dipping the whole car in paint. Sometimes it can be difficult to neutralize all the acid too.
Sandblasting is brutal on the metal by creating heat, warpage and is hell on chrome, glass, rubber etc.
Sodablasting works for the following reasons;

No Metal Fatigue Or Warpage - Ever
No Damage To Glass, Rubber Or Chrome!
Removes Undercoatings And Surface Rust!
Baking Soda Is A Natural Rust Inhibitor - No Need Immediately Prime
Baking Soda Is Water Soluble - Instantly Dissolves!
No Residue Problems In Small Passageways
Baking Soda Is An All Natural, Biodegradable Blast Media

Hope this helps,

Good Luck!
 

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All the info out there right now suggests soda blasting is really the best way to go with respect to automobile restoration.

I just called a local socal shop today that does soda blasting. 95% of his business is doing cars. He spent a good half hour on the phone with me explaining the process and limitations. For my situation, I need to have the engine compartment done (sans fenderwells), so primarily just the firewall, frame rails and new cage tubing and also the entire underneath of the car - without damaging the excellent custom paint (already done). I was kinda hoping this would be a mobile deal, where the guy could come out and spend a few hours in my driveway. He said that they can't legally do that in socal - I think 'cause of air quality regulations. Anyway it looks like an expensive proposition - probably around $700 to do what I need done, plus I have to get my non-running car to his shop, about 50 miles away. But he'll put my car on a rotisserie and blast everything clean so I can spray an epoxy primer and repaint when it gets home. He even strongly suggested I tour his shop first and see the process in person and the types of vehicles he does this service on. I was impressed.
 

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Did he also mention that no major paint company will warranty their paint if the car was soda blasted?

The info that you got on it being the way to go is wrong ! There are alot of benifits to soda blasting as gocirino pointed out but there are some serious problems also !
And soda does not remove any rust.
Yes a soda blasted part will resist rust.This is what also makes the paint not stick to the part and there have been many cars with show quality (big money) paint on them that the paint started to peel off due to the soda .There are ways to neutralize the soda to make the paint stick but the fact is the paint companies still will not warranty the paint .
 

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BIG DOG said:
Did he also mention that no major paint company will warranty their paint if the car was soda blasted?

The info that you got on it being the way to go is wrong ! There are alot of benifits to soda blasting as gocirino pointed out but there are some serious problems also !
And soda does not remove any rust.
Yes a soda blasted part will resist rust.This is what also makes the paint not stick to the part and there have been many cars with show quality (big money) paint on them that the paint started to peel off due to the soda .There are ways to neutralize the soda to make the paint stick but the fact is the paint companies still will not warranty the paint .

Actually the soda blaster I spoke with did not tell me about paint warranty issues. But at the same time, where we left off the conversation was there was still alot to know, which is why he suggested visiting his shop first. Additionally, I am going to be painting my undercarriage and engine compartment on my own. I have only done a very minor amount of autopainting in the past. I am a total novice. A paint company will only warrant their paint for a defect with the product. If it is not applied exactly correct, then the warranty would be void. I would expect if there are problems down the road with my paint job, I am going to assume the problem lies with something I did or didn't do, not with the paint. So to be honest, if I buy a really good paint product, like I'm planning on doing and prepping the to-be-painted areas properly (to the extent that I'm able), I'll do the best job I can and I'm not going to worry about paint warranty.

He DID tell me that soda blasting does not remove rust. My car has ZERO rust.

My comment that "it looks like the best way to go" is merely my personal opionion, certainly not an expert opinion but also definitely not based on just what this one individual said. There is an incredible amount of info available online, in this and many other automotive forums. Regardless of your obvious dislike of sodablasting, it remains a very viable option for many restoring their cars. I arrive at this personal conclusion based on discussions with others that have had their cars done and reading what scores of others have documented online. It is much easier to find horror stories about sandblasting as a method to remove paint and undercoating.

In my case the warranty issue (assuming it's true) would have no bearing on my decision. I don't go through life worrying about voiding warranties. If everyone worried about that, there wouldn't be much of an aftermarket with which to modify our vehicles from. I have probably technically voided warranty on every single vehicle (auto and motorcycle) I've owned for the last 30 years except a couple of minivans >:D
 

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mini vans ? lol we all make choices so I guess it boils down to what you think works best for you. I looked up soda blasting in my area and feel it is an option as well. Good thing about being a novice is you usually overkill everything like prep work. Be careful and all should be well
 

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I'm not saying that I dislike soda blasting I actually soda blasted my whole car turned out quite well I really like the job it does and the way the metal looks after it is done.And to work with way better than sand ! I'm just warning you that you maybe getting into some problems with it ! The paint companies will not warrany their paint if it is used on a soda blased car WHY? Because they are having adhesion problems with the paint not sticking to soad blasted cars .I'm not so worried about the warranty as I am with the paint falling off.No need to spend the money on the paint then have it fall off because it wasn't properly neutralized.Make sure that you get the proper instructions as to how to neutralize the soda and don't just listen to the guy doing the blasting.I'm not saying he doesn't know he very well may but just make sure that you research so that are sure you will get adheasion. Me I still have some fenders and door to do they will be soda blasted because I built my own soda blaster.But if I had to do it again I'm not sure I would have gone that route. I am worried about adheasion of my paint products even though I believe that I have neutralized the soda it's a lot of work to have your paint fall off.
 

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I called Gene at Ace Automotive Cleaning Equipment (http://www.ace-sandblasting.com/soda-blasting.html) (phone 616.402.4120). I asked him about any known affects of soda blasting and issues with automotive paint refinishing. He said that he has been in this business for twenty years and that even though the soda blasting is a more recent medium, he has never heard of any issues with this process.
He suspects that if someone had a problem it might be because they primed over a soda blasted surface without proper cleaning first. He said some of his high end customers use a citrus based cleaner to prep the metal before priming.
Gene also mentioned that light surface rust will be removed, however, deep rust pits will not be removed or cleaned.
As for body filler, depending on the pressure used you can either blast it out with a high pressure or leave it untouched with a lower pressure.
I also called Mark at the PPG Paint Technical School (410.863.4639) here in Baltimore. He did not know of any problems with soda blasting as long as the P-Sheets (product sheets) directions are adhered to. He said that there are no warranty issues with soda blasting and PPG products.
I spoke with PPG tech reps in Pittsburgh (PPG Corporate) today too. They claim that they have had paint claims denied whereby the soda blast process was used, but because of improper preparation of the surface or because soda was imbedded in nooks and crannies that blew into the paint during spraying, the paint became contaminated and caused issues. PPG does not mention soda blasting in their paint warranty.
The DuPont paint warranty (http://neoshocollisioncenter.com/dupont.html) does not mention anything about soda blasting in their warranty description.
Paint manufacturers will not warrant your paint job anyway unless you are a trained technician in the respective paint line ie; PPG, DuPont, and the product directions are followed!
The bottom line is you are on your own painting your own car and the substrate to be refinished must be cleaned and prepared properly regardless if you acid dip, sand blast or soda blast.
 

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BIG DOG , thanks for clarifying your position and also appreciate your advice regarding prep....


gocirino, I'm sure others besides me will appreciate the research you did and sharing that with the forum tnku
 

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Your welcome I don't give a rats ass about the warranty part of it either as I will be doing it in my garage also .I'm just trying to let people know that there are some serious problems with adhesion when soda is used if it isn't neutralized properly.And if you talk to the correct people at Dupont and PPG they will tell you that.Also call some of the high end resto shops they are also dropping it as they can't take the chance on a $40-$100000 resto coming back. -0*( -0*( -0*(
 

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I linked this to Bob in Fl. and he asked me to paste the response. Hopefully this helps.

The term "Acid" dipping is not in anyway whatsoever conducted on resto type vehicles. Factually, Acid was used to "reduce a drag vehicles weight" and this stupid term of saying "ACID" is miss-used when speaking of vehicle restorations that are conducted today.

NO ACID is used in vehicle submersion, as acid actually eats both good solid steel material and the rust, leaving the vehicles metal skin pitted and actually it will rust (surface flash) quicker when acid is used.

Vehicle Dipping is conducted to remove ONLY the existing rust [I.E. IRON OXCIDE] and that is normally conducted via electrolyses. With only the areas of metal that has iron oxide (rust on it's steel base) being removed and the magic chemical used,,,,, (get ready) ,,, is,,,"BICARBONATE SODA" dissolved in water.!

Hey, isn't that something, it's the very same material used in soda blasting but only dissolved in water and an electrical current in correct values is being used ! (However soda when used in a blasting process won't remove any rust, only stronger abrasives like silica-sand that can easily warp most surface vehicles metal, due to the heat it generates when it contacts the metal surface and/or aluminum oxide which also will warp surface metal.

Oh by the way, all methods of abrasive "blasting" will not in anyway whatsoever remove all of the rust, as there are still minor areas of rust remaining and embedded in the pores of the steel only to return later unless something like a real rust preventative material such as POR-15 base paint sealer is first used prior to finish painting the vehicle's previously rusted areas in question. Areas of rust that cannot be reached I.E. box frames, metal seams and so forth will still have the opportunity to rust as they did day one from the vehicles manufacturer passably line.

Both processes (either soda blasting or vehicle-dipping ) must be "pressured washed" and "dried" before you use self etching base primer. By the way, "self-etching-primer" is the first time any sort of acid-type material is use in a proper vehicle resto. Humm?

To clear up some paint warrantee misconceptions. All vehicle paint mfgs will in fact warranty the application (adhesion) of paint on vehicles as long as the vehicle that was either soda-blasted or dipped has been properly "neutralized" (cleaned/prepped as mention above) The real and serious issue of paint warranty is the fact that (as a private garage Do It Yourselfer guy) unless you have a good relationship with the paint distributor in your area, your wonderful resto will never, ever be warranted, simply because you are not a daily licensed vehicle paint & body profession / business. Nearly all paint materials made today has a disclaimer on the side of the paint-can stating "For Professional Use Only" or some other similar disclaimer!

Factually & no argument needed, vehicle dipping for all areas of seen and unseen iron oxide (rust) removal is the best way to go. Plus, then going the step of having the vehicle primer dipped (fully submersed) using negative (reverse electron ground process) grounding if your real intent is to have a finished product (all costs barred) desire to be around for many, many generations.
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