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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well I had a plan to just have a local shop I know spray my dart in just a flat black primer so i can upgrade it without having to try and avoid ruining a high dollar paint job(I plan to fix the body rust, then paint it flat black, then I'll be doing upgrades-alterktion, 4 link rear, tubbed rear wheel wells, frame connectors, torque boxes, etc.- then disassembling the whole car and sending the body parts out for paint) but the guys on trucks said today on the show while they are painting there ford flat black said that the flat black paint if using anything other then this 3 stage(primer, paint, flat clear coat?) flat black paint you'll trap water molecules(something like that) in the paint and causes rust quicker. I ask because my car will be in black primer for probably at least 3 years before I get to the stages of painting it So I don't want the body panels that I'll end up paying a pretty penny for to rust in that time frame(I need to do quarter panels, rocker panels, and fenders)

So do they have any proof to their claim? they simply said it will cause paint to rust quicker so I'm concerned. I'd really like to get my car to driving condition(my old lady is saying that if It doesn't drive I don't need it-refering to vehicles at least) The cars a good solid car it's got amazingly immaculate floorboards they do not have a spot of rust on them ether its just the body has some holes. top of the fender, behind the wheel well on the fender, the door is rusting on both sides at the seam at the back, the bottom of both quarter panels are rusting and theres holes in the rockers. Everything else is solid as far as I can tell theres no rust around the windows ether so i want to protect that so i think I'll use por-15 first then get it sprayed in a moderately priced primer(not spray can but no 3 stage paint deal)
 

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i am not sure on the product line or specific stuff they were using.

do you know?

and are you going to be driving this car on the road after the primer job or is it going to be in storage for the whole time?
 
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its not true ,i had my car in primer for 3 years working on it and taking it to the track. its painted now and had no problems... santa3
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I plan to drive this car daily while I work on it, that being said it's not my only car so when I tackle big jobs like suspension,etc. I'll have something else to drive so I won't have to do it really hurriedly. I plan on putting a pretty thick couple coats of flat black primer. It's just I'd rather not go and spend the 3500 bucks it'll cost to get it in a decent paint job if I'm gonna be cutting and welding on the car.

I mean eventually when I've got everything done and installed(alterktion, 4 link, etc.) I'll rip it all apart and send it out for paint.
 

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Rather than the run of the mill primer have you considered using an epoxy sealer? I've always thought primer would actually absorb moisture hence allowing for surface rust to begin. Hey, what do I know, I drive a truck....I don't do body work.
 

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My...68;    65Pro is right on
          If your going to keep your car in primer for an extended period of time, then I would sand every panel to bare metal real clean, give it a lite (very lite, like just a dusting) coat of SEM self etching primer # 39673 black spray can, (two cans should do your whole car) and then get yourself some PPG DP 90 LF Epoxy primer w/hardner. Do one or two panels at a time. Make sure you do it outside away from everything,, this stuff is like spray glue and sticks to everything. Also make sure you wear a good mask, spend the 35.00 on a 3M charcoal respirator at least. This is bad stuff (the hardner). Regular and less expensive primer surfacers tend to absorb moisture over time, especially when exposed to any kind of other contaminates such as tree sap, bird droppings, acid rain, oils, antifreeze, and all that other crap you can pick up on the road. Primer is not meant to be exposed for very long, its meant to be top coated pretty much right away because it has no UV or IR protection from the sun and the elements. Thats the reason for clearcoats. And DON'T use any polyester primers such as Morton's eliminator or EverCoat's FeatherFill these outright absorb moisture directly. You can't even wetsand those or.....eyes glazing over, that faraway look coming on..... in a very short period of time you'll wind up with little tiny blisters under the paint that only show up when the car sits in the sun and heats up and makes them swell, so.... you get curious and decide to pop one and a little speck of water drains out and there's rust under it........teeth grinding, eye twitches.............. (ask me how I found that out) grind, twitch. Oh, ok, I'm back,....anyway,  DP will tend to be not quite as flat black as I think your after but then again regular flat black primers will "wear" in the weather, epoxy will not. With regular primer when you go to paint your car, lets say two or three years from now, you'll have to strip it to metal, with epoxy you just wash it with soap and water real good, de-grease two times completely resand with say 220 grit D/A, one lite coat of fresh DP and then go to urethane primer surfacer. Hey, I don't drive a truck, but I do bodywork every day.  Jeff.  :p
 

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automan63 said:
My...68;    65Pro is right on
          If your going to keep your car in primer for an extended period of time, then I would sand every panel to bare metal real clean, give it a lite (very lite, like just a dusting) coat of SEM self etching primer # 39673 black spray can, (two cans should do your whole car) and then get yourself some PPG DP 90 LF Epoxy primer w/hardner. Do one or two panels at a time. Make sure you do it outside away from everything,, this stuff is like spray glue and sticks to everything. Also make sure you wear a good mask, spend the 35.00 on a 3M charcoal respirator at least. This is bad stuff (the hardner). Regular and less expensive primer surfacers tend to absorb moisture over time, especially when exposed to any kind of other contaminates such as tree sap, bird droppings, acid rain, oils, antifreeze, and all that other crap you can pick up on the road. Primer is not meant to be exposed for very long, its meant to be top coated pretty much right away because it has no UV or IR protection from the sun and the elements. Thats the reason for clearcoats. And DON'T use any polyester primers such as Morton's eliminator or EverCoat's FeatherFill these outright absorb moisture directly. You can't even wetsand those or.....eyes glazing over, that faraway look coming on..... in a very short period of time you'll wind up with little tiny blisters under the paint that only show up when the car sits in the sun and heats up and makes them swell, so.... you get curious and decide to pop one and a little speck of water drains out and there's rust under it........teeth grinding, eye twitches.............. (ask me how I found that out) grind, twitch. Oh, ok, I'm back,....anyway,  DP will tend to be not quite as flat black as I think your after but then again regular flat black primers will "wear" in the weather, epoxy will not. With regular primer when you go to paint your car, lets say two or three years from now, you'll have to strip it to metal, with epoxy you just wash it with soap and water real good, de-grease two times completely resand with say 220 grit D/A, one lite coat of fresh DP and then go to urethane primer surfacer. Hey, I don't drive a truck, but I do bodywork every day.  Jeff.  :p
Teeto said:
PPG DPLF 90 Hands down.
[]{} If you have a compressor, buy a cheapie spray gun and spray it yourself, you will save a TON of money and DP sprays so easy even I can do it **(*)

Ryan
 

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I've got a question. What are these street rod guys using on their cars. You see them with chopped tops and lots of custom bodywork and they usually have a flat paint job. I was told that it was a sealer, sometimes tinted with color ??? Anyway, I was planning on running mine with the "still under construction look" but I want that metal protected from moisture.
 

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If you really want to have that "flat look" you can have it both ways use etch/epoxy primer and then the flat black you want. Seems like too much work to me but hey, who am I?
Just bear in mind that the flat black will fade (chalk out) and wear off over time. When it begins to get chalky it will come off on your hands and clothes and make them black. I wouldnt do it. For my way of thinking just put down the etch/epoxy combo, let it dry overnite and have a real good look at it the next day, and if you just cant stand the slight shine that it has after its dry, then topcoat it with flat black. You have about an 8 hour window between epoxy and topcoat without having to sand it, any longer and you have to sand it to get anything to stick. Just my 2cents Jeff.
 

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When I did my street rod I stripped it down, etch primered it, sandable primered it and then when I got it going and was going to keep working on her I bought a gallon of dark grey primer and mixed in a pint of low gloss black paint and it lasted for 2 years with no rust appearing so far. It's getting stripped for paint now so I will know for sure if it worked or not. There is a powder that PPG makes you add to make paint flat, you can use any brand enamel or color. Thats how they made those satin finishes on street rods and flat black also. Only thing is it's a one shot deal, spray it on and your done. No wet sanding or buffing, rubbing out or waxing ever. Just wash and go, it's kind of cool but I want mine to shine.
 

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Automan63, you recommended a coat of SEM self etching primer # 39673 black spray can. I take it this is available in grey as well, and what brand is it? (PPG as well)
Also PPG DP 90 LF Epoxy primer w/hardner, is this primer part no. for black or can they tint it any colour, or is it a different part no. for different colors?

Thanks, great write up, for us non body guys! tnku
 

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Keith;
Well the brand of the etch primer is SEM, comes in three colors, Black Green, and Gray. here's a link for so you can see what it looks like. http://www.levineautoparts.com/semseletprim.html    DP LF primers are available in different colors.

40 is gray green
48 is white
50 is gray
60 is light blue (didn't know they made this one till recently)
74 is red oxide
90 is black
They all use the same hardner and no I dont believe you should tint them with anything other than a different color of DP, 74 red with 50 gray or something like that .  Jeff.
 

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Thansk you automan63, you have me on the right track! tnku
 

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Glad I can help, I've learned a lot here, from others as well the tech pages. There's no better place for the Mopar guys that I've found. If you need anything else, ask away.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
thanks for the help. Just one more question where would I find those types of paint and how much would I need? Cost estimate?
 

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automan63 said:
Just bear in mind that the flat black will fade (chalk out) and wear off over time. When it begins to get chalky it will come off on your hands and clothes and make them black. I wouldnt do it.
[]{} I think the issue seems settled, but I just wanted to reiterate. I drove a primered car around for about three years. and it got chalky after about a year, and I had to reprime it. I wasn't going for a primer look, I was just in high school and saving my money for a better car.
 

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My car has two coats of gray primer,and a good coat of clear,been that way for four years, no probs so far. Sprayed it myself so it only cost me about 200 bucks.
 
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