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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm trying to decide which one to buy, an 8pt bar, or a cage. I don't plan on going any faster than high 10's. I don't have the money to go any faster quite frankly. I can't imangine ever wanting to go any faster than that. Should I go for an 8pt Alston bar, or a cage? I just don't want to hassle with the front part of the cage. I do have plans to cut out the inner fenders and weld in a down tube from the firewall to the frame to tie in the shock mounts. You guys think I'll be safe with a 8 pt bar?
 

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it appears you will need a cage at 10.99 seconds or quicker.

roll bar at 11.49-10.99.

there are exceptions to this.

if you modify a fire wall on a 10.99 or slower you may need to install a bar under the front window(pretty much an 8 point).

if you modify the floor pan too much you may have to put in a rocker bar.

a basic roll bar has just 5 points of attachment,the odd point is along side the driver's left side.

roll bars are a minimum of 1 3/4" diameter material.

cages are 1 5/8" minimum diameter.

but with the times you are planning on it looks like a cage anyways.
 

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with an unaltered firewall you only need roll bars down to 10 flat. my advice would be that if you plan on welding in the down bars, then you should go all the way and do the cage. your budget and desire now is to only do 10's but that will probably change in the future and want to go faster. i know it did for me and probably most of the speed junkies on this site. 0/ lol
 

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your budget and desire now is to only do 10's but that will probably change in the future and want to go faster. i know it did for me and probably most of the speed junkies on this site. 0/ lol

Ohh Yeah 0/ 0/ 0/ 0/ 0/ 0/
 
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>:D You will be ok with a 8 point,go to nhra.com the bar rules is there its like 6 point till 9.50 unless you have a convertable its 10.99 for a cage. make all welds up hill and no grinding ,they say no stick or fluxcore but I think that a stick can be good(because I test welds) some welder can put it in there, but they don't X-ray or UT the welds just look and they know that if you grind on a weld its to hide something :police:  now under 9.50 or 135mph welds get UT  a UT can tell how deep the weld is on a x-ray you can see whats in the weld.           Max43
 

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Well first off...your specifically bound by a 135 MPH sub rule rule. Some 10 second cars run 135 +.

If your car runs 135 mph you MUST meet all requirements of a 9.99 et car. That means a Cage and NHRA Chassis certification, all the driver restraint/helment/neckbrace/window net/NHRA lic to compete, along with all the mandated driveline requirements for a 9.99 cert car.

SPECIFICALLY: any car running 10.99 or quicker or faster than 135 - roll cage manditory.
In a car with unaltered floor or firewall(back half permitted) a roll bar can be used in place there of. However according to NHRA Tech Notes, a Fabed trans tunnel alters the drivers compartment, thus requiring the cage irrespective of the 10.99/135 mph rule and the roll bar exception.

As for the welding process: Chrome Moly MUST be welded via TIG Heli process and Mild Steel under approved MIG/TIG. Therefore flux or stick is prohibited. Inclusive for Roll bars and Roll cages! Dont flux or stick weld it! (Gen reg 4:10 & 4:11) Plus they cant be slapped on welding.

Specifically in division V we've had to be very obserative of the location of the bars as per the diagrams and prox to where the driver sits. There have been crashes early season where the bars have caused extensive injuries by being too low or too high. When you have the welder doing this, sit in the car as if you were driving and view the diageams in '06 rule book for the locations of the bars...dont just put them in place for ease of wntry or exit...they are placed in the positions in the diagrams for safety.

If all fails, contact your local track, get a rule book, call your divisional chassis inspector, have a conversation with him........but build it safe, in compliance with the rules........that way you wont waste time, money, effort and the life you might save in the event of a crash, JUST MIGHT BE YOUR OWN
 

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Midnight Special said:
Well first off...your specifically bound by a 135 MPH sub rule rule.  Some 10 second cars run 135 +.

If your car runs 135 mph you MUST meet all requirements of a 9.99 et car.  That means a Cage and NHRA Chassis certification, all the driver restraint/helment/neckbrace/window net/NHRA lic to compete, along with all the mandated driveline requirements for a 9.99 cert car.

SPECIFICALLY:  any car running 10.99 or quicker or faster than 135 - roll cage manditory.
In a car with unaltered floor or firewall(back half permitted) a roll bar can be used in place there of.  However according to NHRA Tech Notes, a Fabed trans tunnel alters the drivers compartment, thus requiring the cage irrespective of the 10.99/135 mph rule and the roll bar exception.

As for the welding process:  Chrome Moly MUST be welded via TIG Heli process and Mild Steel under approved MIG/TIG.  Therefore flux or stick is prohibited. Inclusive for Roll bars and Roll cages!  Dont flux or stick weld it! (Gen reg 4:10 & 4:11) Plus they cant be slapped on welding.

Specifically in division V we've had to be very obserative of the location of the bars as per the diagrams and prox to where the driver sits.  There have been crashes early season where the bars have caused extensive injuries by being too low or too high.  When you have the welder doing this, sit in the car as if you were driving and view the diageams in '06 rule book for the locations of the bars...dont just put them in place for ease of wntry or exit...they are placed in the positions in the diagrams for safety.

If all fails, contact your local track, get a rule book, call your divisional chassis inspector, have a conversation with him........but build it safe, in compliance with the rules........that way you wont waste time, money, effort and the life you might save in the event of a crash, JUST MIGHT BE YOUR OWN
Dave, I plan on getting a rule book, but what are the rules for swing out door bars? Is it allowable to have a removable rear bar (to access the back seat)?
 
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Go to" nhra rules on roll bars" all the rules are there, doh I been racing for years I knew about the cage rule( 10.99) but my old mind don't work no more it like 11.99 for convertables ::) and all cars 10.99 with cert.stamp for 9.50 >:D first the mind goes then lol lol lol bent43
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So I guess I should just go for the cage so I can weld the front down tubes through the firewall to the main cage. The cage isn't that much more $ than the bar. Plus I have room to play if I ever want to go faster.
 

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Crazy68Dart said:
Midnight Special said:
Well first off...your specifically bound by a 135 MPH sub rule rule.  Some 10 second cars run 135 +.

If your car runs 135 mph you MUST meet all requirements of a 9.99 et car.  That means a Cage and NHRA Chassis certification, all the driver restraint/helment/neckbrace/window net/NHRA lic to compete, along with all the mandated driveline requirements for a 9.99 cert car.

SPECIFICALLY:  any car running 10.99 or quicker or faster than 135 - roll cage manditory.
In a car with unaltered floor or firewall(back half permitted) a roll bar can be used in place there of.  However according to NHRA Tech Notes, a Fabed trans tunnel alters the drivers compartment, thus requiring the cage irrespective of the 10.99/135 mph rule and the roll bar exception.

As for the welding process:  Chrome Moly MUST be welded via TIG Heli process and Mild Steel under approved MIG/TIG.  Therefore flux or stick is prohibited. Inclusive for Roll bars and Roll cages!  Dont flux or stick weld it! (Gen reg 4:10 & 4:11) Plus they cant be slapped on welding.

Specifically in division V we've had to be very obserative of the location of the bars as per the diagrams and prox to where the driver sits.  There have been crashes early season where the bars have caused extensive injuries by being too low or too high.  When you have the welder doing this, sit in the car as if you were driving and view the diageams in '06 rule book for the locations of the bars...dont just put them in place for ease of wntry or exit...they are placed in the positions in the diagrams for safety.

If all fails, contact your local track, get a rule book, call your divisional chassis inspector, have a conversation with him........but build it safe, in compliance with the rules........that way you wont waste time, money, effort and the life you might save in the event of a crash, JUST MIGHT BE YOUR OWN
Dave, I plan on getting a rule book, but what are the rules for swing out door bars?  Is it allowable to have a removable rear bar (to access the back seat)?
Andy--

The swingout can only be used on the roll bar as long as your modifications do not require the cage or the chassis cert, with keeping the ET/MPH Sub rule in mind. Its excluded on the roll cage because of the chassis cert requirement and "solid connectivity". Also you can not have a swing out type attachement on the center or main hoop. I have a swing out on the '74 Duster, but have to crawl into the back seat. When my son's were "kids" they could easily make it into the back.
Also I swapped seats(I used Cobra SVO Mustang seats modeled after the Ricaro) the main cross bar of the hoop causes the seats back to sit almost vertically streight up, which on a 3 hr trip anywhere becomes uncomfortable. It needs to have a removable cross bar to make the sets full functionable in my old age.....but the rules prohibit that,BUT LET ME PUT THIS DISCLAIMER IN....
Most tracks while going thru tech, will bend the rules slightly to allow you to have a good day at the track. Our track affords you the opportuntiy to correct the tech issue AS LONG AS IT DOESNT impeed safe operation. (IE, your cars seat belts are in good /perfect shape, but the SFI Date punch stamp makes them out of date. we will you allow you to race that day, but it must be corrected by the next time you go thru tech for a race) Most tracks will allow you that day...at least outs does.

Sorry to bring ya bad news Andy...
 

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Dave, I appreciate the info.

I have aftermarket seats that I just got mocked up, and these little cars get small in their quick. The seats have a lot of bolstering on the sides, and are pretty sporty looking. I will have pics in the next few days.

Anyway, I need to decide on what to go forward with. This car by no means is an all out drag car. It will serve most of its life on the street, but I do want to be able to see some track time, messing around, ya know. I have a 10 pt cage from SW, and am real close to starting the install.
 
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