Big Block Dart Forums banner
1 - 8 of 8 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
72 340 Demon. 440 swap.

Context for the photos: Got the bolts in the trans mount. K member held in by four bolts but still slack in them.

The stud on the engine mount doesn't line up with the pad on the k member. Anyone had this problem? Also if I cut out the clearance for the oil pump I can't leave the 1/4" of material the instructions say to leave.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
529 Posts
Hi,
When I installed the Schumacker mounts on my Dodge, I had to use spacers to lift the engine to get clearances I needed. Unfortunately the mounts don't fit every car the same way. Is it possible you have the wrong mounts? The engine mount studs should line up with the K frame hole. With the trans bolted to the original spot on the transmission mount.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
I installed a 76 block using the Schumacker mounts in my 69 Cuda FB. But I installed the bare block with oil pump attached into the car first to check fitment of everything. I also ended up with less than 1/4 inch of web after cutting out for the oil pump maybe 3/16" or 5/32", and even had to take a corner off from the pressure relief valve cap nut. I centered the engine mount studs in the K slots, leveled the block left to right and snugged a nut on the studs. Then I attached an empty transmission case (easier to handle) to the block with 2 bolts and then installed the transmission mount and crossmember. It all fit perfectly doing it that way. The transmission mount has long slots in it on the tailshaft housing ears which allows for about an inch of fore and aft locating of the engine/transmission assembly. Your photo shows the engine mount stud to be off from the K slot center by just about the length of the transmission mount slots. Or maybe you have the transmission mount in backwards? There's no photo of that.
Another possibility, however far fetched, is that you might have a tailshaft housing on your TF that came from a later model van or truck which are slightly different in dimension and shape in several ways as compared to the old car parts Schumacker tooled up for. I got caught in that trap myself a couple of years back on a simple rebuild where the customer supplied the TF core and kit. The TF went together just fine but he couldn't bolt it into his 68 notchback because the tailshaft housing was from a late 80's B200 13 passenger van, luckily that was easy to swap out. The photo of your left engine mount shows it to be assembled correct except for the 3/8 bolt you've got in that lower bracket hole, all 3 bolts should be 7/16", but then you knew that already.
Good luck!
Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
529 Posts
Hi,
If you end up with an oil filter clearance problem, where the oil filter hits the k frame you can use a smaller diameter oil filter. I'm using a Wix 51516. It fits where the PF8A won't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
With a properly positioned BB set into a SB V8 K-member the oil filter seal boss on the pump will always be far out in front of the K-member, there will be no need for a small diameter filter. If a 51515 won't fit the engine needs to come forward. As it is shown in rickroll's opening photos the motor mount stud is nearly an inch to far aft which should place the engine too close to the firewall, thus the left valve cover will be smashed into the firewall electrical connector block. If it is an automatic car there won't be any space for the throttle pressure linkage either.

I suppose it is possible rick has the wrong engine mount brackets. My engine mount brackets came from a 76 Cordoba 400 engine and fit perfectly on my 400/470 stroker in my factory stock 340 car, no shims needed, other year/model brackets may be different? BB/RB engines were made for 30 years and were used in everything from Dodge darts to D800 cab and chassis trucks, motor homes, and God only knows what else. All that time and those many applications leave a lot of room for a variety of engine brackets. I personally couldn't begin to guess at the possibilities.

Just for shits and giggles measure from the passenger side rear most exhaust manifold/header bolt hole center to the firewall directly behind it, it is necessary on a late model A body for that measurement to be between 2" and 2-3/8". If it is less than 1-7/8" the problem is at the transmission mount or tail shaft housing mount pad centerline. If the measurement does fall between 2 and 2.375" the problem lies with the engine mount brackets or the location of the K-member pads.

My cars are still in winter storage (stupid city salted the roads again last week for a half inch of snow) so I can't get under one right now to measure the distance from K-member engine pad centerline to transmission cross member mount stud centerline. I would if I could. Perhaps someone else has one on a lift and can chime in.

There IS an answer, just have to dig it out of the rust pile.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I installed a 76 block using the Schumacker mounts in my 69 Cuda FB. But I installed the bare block with oil pump attached into the car first to check fitment of everything. I also ended up with less than 1/4 inch of web after cutting out for the oil pump maybe 3/16" or 5/32", and even had to take a corner off from the pressure relief valve cap nut. I centered the engine mount studs in the K slots, leveled the block left to right and snugged a nut on the studs. Then I attached an empty transmission case (easier to handle) to the block with 2 bolts and then installed the transmission mount and crossmember. It all fit perfectly doing it that way. The transmission mount has long slots in it on the tailshaft housing ears which allows for about an inch of fore and aft locating of the engine/transmission assembly. Your photo shows the engine mount stud to be off from the K slot center by just about the length of the transmission mount slots. Or maybe you have the transmission mount in backwards? There's no photo of that.
Another possibility, however far fetched, is that you might have a tailshaft housing on your TF that came from a later model van or truck which are slightly different in dimension and shape in several ways as compared to the old car parts Schumacker tooled up for. I got caught in that trap myself a couple of years back on a simple rebuild where the customer supplied the TF core and kit. The TF went together just fine but he couldn't bolt it into his 68 notchback because the tailshaft housing was from a late 80's B200 13 passenger van, luckily that was easy to swap out. The photo of your left engine mount shows it to be assembled correct except for the 3/8 bolt you've got in that lower bracket hole, all 3 bolts should be 7/16", but then you knew that already.
Good luck!
Steve
Thanks. The transmission mount holes only line up one directions. There wasn't enough play in the direction I needed. So how can I tell which tail shaft housing I have?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Sorry for the delay, been too busy elsewhere. The newer housing I had that wouldn't fit had the shaft bearing snap ring cover on the passenger side of the housing facing the frame rail. The older ones that did fit have the snap ring cover on the bottom just in front of the mount pad. They also have the two "ears" for mounting a floor shifter shaft bracket which were absent from the newer type housing.

I went out to the shop and measured the empty transmission I use for mocking up. From the forward face of the tailshaft housing to the center line of the mount holes is 6.75".

Has the transmission cross member been replaced? If so is it too far back? Are you using the early square block trans mount? See image, or has the later model round mount been fabbed in?

The fore/aft engine location is set by the location of the transmission mount. If the engine is too close to the firewall it is the transmission mount and/or crossmember that is causing it to be there.

Checking crossmember location is done as follows. Study the attached measured drawing. Raise car level above a clean floor. Suspend a plumb bob from point "B" on the K-member, either theleft side torsion bar pivot hole or right side, it doesn't doesn't matter. Mark the floor where the plumb bob comes to rest. Next locate the gauge hole "C" or "D" in the crossmember diagonally opposite from the point "B" you have chosen. Suspend the plumb bob from the center of the hole and mark the floor where it comes to rest. Now measure the distance between the two marks on the floor. This measurement should be 46.51 inches on your car plus or minus 1/4".

I'll try to be more prompt from now on, and I think next week I will be able to get under mine so as to get some other measurements that might be helpful. Good luck!
Camera accessory Gas Font Output device Machine
Bicycle part Auto part Composite material Metal Automotive exterior
Rectangle Slope Schematic Font Line

Rectangle Slope Schematic Font Line


Bicycle part Auto part Composite material Metal Automotive exterior


Camera accessory Gas Font Output device Machine
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
First off did you notch the mount for the pump as described? Second thing to remember is you can rotate the biscuit 90 degrees at a time to change position. I also oblonged the tranny mount hole to give more movement.
 

Attachments

1 - 8 of 8 Posts
Top